Campus Master Planning for Higher Education

This episode delves into the key steps involved in creating a successful campus master plan, from understanding the institution's mission and goals to assessing current facilities and developing innovative solutions. CMBA Principal architect Brent Koch and Matt from Confluence share their expertise on gathering feedback from stakeholders, identifying key trends, and collaborating with clients to create a vision for the future of the campus.

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Episode Transcript

Skyler: Welcome to another episode of laying the foundation.

Skyler: Welcome back everybody to another episode of the laying the foundation podcast. I'm your host Skylar back to talk to some special guests that I have today. Brent, one of our amazing principal architects from our office here in Sioux City, and then joining us today is our very special guest, Matt Carlisle from Confluence.

Skyler: Matt, welcome to the show.

Matt: Thank you. Glad to be here. Happy to talk about campus planning.

Skyler: That's right. And thank you so much for introducing that. Yes. So today we will be talking about campus master planning for higher education. So we're talking colleges. We're talking universities, things along those lines, coming up with new projects and what that kind of looks like as part of the process.

Skyler: Brent created a really great overview of the process that the architects go through. And then Matt is here to offer a whole lot of insight from the Confluence side. And Matt, if you could tell us a little bit about Confluence's mission and what you guys kind of do and what your part in the whole process of master planning is, that would be amazing.

Matt: Yeah, just a very, very quick background on Confluence, uh, started in Des Moines, Iowa, have offices around the Midwest in nine different locations from Minneapolis to Kansas City from Denver to Chicago. But really based on good site design principles, we do all sorts of site design, work with clients all over on different types of topics on how to make spaces amazing, but campuses are one of those things that we like to focus upon and Me in particular, I really like to work on things like that.

Matt: So to answer your question specifically, um, um, I guess we always look at campuses as, as they're all unique, right? There's certain opportunities with each one of them. They all have unique challenges. We have a passion to work with each of the spaces on each campus. What is the land like? How does it fit into it?

Matt: You look at, you guys are in Sioux City. So look at the Briarcliff campus and what the context is of Briarcliff's campus compared to the campus of, You know, um, Grandview here in Des Moines, right? They're completely different things, have completely different needs, but there's still the ability to meet those needs and figure out how we can work with the land and develop a proposal or a scope or the spaces that they use every day, we can make them better in some capacity.

Matt: And that's just the excitement that we have. I guess we get to work with all those different elements and all the different owners and meet all those challenges.

Skyler: Yes, absolutely. And then Brent from your side, from the architect side, what is sort of the process of saying, Hey, let's go to confluence for instance, and start to partner with them and work with them.

Skyler: What does that look like from the higher ed perspective?

Brent: Well, I think it's a good team. Uh, Matt and I've done this a few times now on different campuses and, uh, we kind of know each other's tendencies and it's just, uh, It's kind of a no brainer to, uh, think of, okay, you know, when you're on a college campus, there is, like Matt said, there, even the topography, it kind of, and just the layout of the land and, um, it brings another element.

Brent: That's something we need to focus on. It's not just buildings on our end. Uh, we'd like to make sure, um, and I think we might probably touch on this a little bit later, later, but, you know, students, they're on campus all the time. They're living, they're learning, they're playing. A lot of that is done outdoors and, um, even lately, I think even mental health wise, there's more trying to involve the outdoors.

Brent: You know, maybe get a little bit inside, but get people outside. Um, it's just, it's just good for your health. And, uh, it's something we want to make sure we incorporate into, you know, what college campuses can do.

Skyler: So tell me a little bit about what those steps look like when the two of you partnered together.

Skyler: You've got a big project for some college university campus that you guys are going to work on. You're getting that master plan ready to go. What are your, what are those first steps that you guys take? And what is the beginning of this process kind of look like?

Brent: I think we have that kickoff meeting. We want to sit down with that campuses leadership.

Brent: Uh, they usually have a cabinet or a team of, uh, just, you know, different people who cover different aspects of campus life and. Uh, and we want to sit down. Uh, that's kind of where we first start getting to know that campus. Um, as we're doing a master plan, that is something we really want to get into is, you know, what is this campus?

Brent: You know, who are they? Um, what do they like? What are their, you know, their history? We want to really get to know them. Uh, and that starts with the leadership. They have a real pulse on what the campus is. And so that kickoff meeting, we, we go through, we, uh, ask them questions. We start talking about goals.

Brent: You know, what are they hoping to get out of it? And, uh, that, you know, that's, that's probably one of the most important things is, you know, that initial kickoff meeting kind of all stems from there. How would our process goes on from there?

Matt: Yeah, I guess the easy way to say is I'll second that, but there's, there's a lot more to that as well of, from my perspective, I have to be on campus.

Matt: Like, I want to know and feel and see and like, uh, Topographic map can tell me so much and I can, you know, understand campus from a map. I've my whole life spent reading maps, but there's no replacement for being on campus and seeing it and understanding it and then obviously listening to the folks.

Matt: Right? So there's the initial meeting. I want to go meet with them. First. I want to understand all their thoughts. I want to hear all the problems they have. I want to hear all their goals, all those sort of things. Let's spell it out. And then I want to walk campus. I want to find all those places. I want to see how they use the spaces.

Matt: I want to figure out how the things I heard in that meeting, do I see them happening on campus or do I not see them happening on campus? Like, that's where I have to start. I need to kind of get my arms around what I heard and all the things that are available on campus and what we can do with this project.

Matt: And then really just start to see where it goes. That's where the fun starts.

Skyler: Okay. Absolutely. Yeah. So you guys are sitting down with the staff, the students, the administration, how are you identifying and maybe using specific opportunities and threats and then eventually setting those goals that are within reach?

Skyler: Because obviously I'm sure a lot of students or professors might sit down and say, Oh man, you know, we'd love to be able to do this, this, and this. And you're like, well, I don't know if that's quite achievable, but what we could do is this, this, and this based on the struggles that you're seeing or the challenges that you're seeing the staff.

Skyler: to you. How are you identifying those and how do you kind of interpret that into goals for the master plan?

Matt: I take this one brand. Absolutely. Brent's done this enough with me that like my very first statement in these meetings and we have them is, is today's your day. Like I want to hear the greatest things, the biggest things you've ever thought of.

Matt: I don't care what your department is. You can be as selfish as you want to be. Today is absolutely your day and I want you. Give me the biggest ideas that you think can happen. It can be 30 years from now, but tell me what you want. And then as soon as I say that, I say, you realize none of this may happen, but I need to hear them all.

Matt: Like, I want to be able to compile all of those big thoughts because maybe we can do some of them. There's no way I'm going to collectively be able to do all of them. But those very first few days when we're on campus, that's those days to dream. I want to just talk about those really big things and allow each of the groups.

Matt: You know, most of the time we break it up into different groups, which we can talk about later, but allow each of them to think about think in their own silos of like, if the world was mine and campus was exactly mine, this is what I would do. Let them think that way. Cause that's, I mean, that's where those big ideas come from.

Matt: And if we don't let them think that way for at least while in the beginning, we never get those big ideas out there.

Brent: And even if those are big ideas and that's what we want to hear, you know, sometimes they lead to something that, you know, can be implemented. I mean, it'll lead to other ideas. So if we, we want to get rid of that barrier of, okay, you know, they, we can't do this because of this, but you know, why let's, let's, let's, let's Get bigger, think big, you know, what would really make this campus or your, or your, the way you teach, you know, what, what would make that difference?

Brent: So dream big. Yeah. So a couple more things

Matt: you said opportunities. I think there's always things out there. I mentioned terrain earlier. What does campus tell you? You know, what are the access routes to campus? How can we use sign engine marketing? That's always opportunities. Threats. Brent knows this one.

Matt: Parking is my biggest threat.

Brent: Everybody

Matt: thinks there's never enough parking on a campus and there almost always is. Never close

Brent: enough.

Matt: It's never close enough. It's never right by the door. Um, and then setting goals is another one, I think I heard you say a little bit ago. To me, the best way to do that is work backwards.

Matt: So as we think about the plan, we hear all of these really great big ideas at the beginning. Let's draw them all out. Let's put all the greatest visions on paper and figure out how much space that takes or, you know, where do they all fit kind of on campus? What does that great, great big picture look? And then kind of work backwards.

Matt: Backwards to what's realistic. And that also helps you sort of in your staging. When you get back to that point of you still have that grand vision, but you have the money for phase one, you know, I think working backwards, creating that big vision upfront and talking about it with all the different groups, and then kind of funneling it down.

Matt: As you go is one way to set the goals kind of in the right direction at the beginning.

Skyler: And I apologize. So I'm, I should have started with this, but do you guys usually get approached by the college that says, Hey, we already have something in mind that we want to do? Um, or is it kind of more leaning towards a college saying, Hey, you know, we'd like to start looking at improvements to our facility because how is that kind of affecting when you guys sit down with people and those people are, you know, Pitching all these different ideas and and thoughts and dreams as you guys have mentioned before and how does that affect who you're talking to as well?

Skyler: So for instance if the college approaches you and says we want to update our science building Then do you only sit down with people from the science team the students professors and so on or are you? Branching out to other faculty and student outside of the science department to kind of get their ideas on how to other areas even within the college that you want to work on.

Brent: Go ahead, Brent. Yeah, if it's a, if it's a master plan they're looking for, it's usually a pretty broad everybody. Um, you know, leadership, that leadership team is, you know, they, they cover their certain sectors, you know, Campus life, you know, faculty, dean of students, you know, they have their, their different, I don't call them lanes, um, that they, that they, uh, take care of on campus.

Brent: And then we want to get to know all the campus. So we'll even send out surveys that it's one of the ways we kind of get a wide amount of information ahead of a broad, uh, pretty wide, uh, population of, of students. Usually run with those surveys first, start getting kind of. What's going on get a wide amount of information.

Brent: Uh, we'll start seeing some themes come out of those And then we'll want to head into some focus group to kind of kind of dig into a little deeper on some of those themes Um, and those focus groups are usually we have done some students of you know A certain amount of students faculty, uh, we'll talk to department heads different faculty members staff Uh, you know, how are their I.

Brent: T. needs, um, athletics. So there's a lot of things on campus that we will push in a master plan. Uh, we'll want to try and hit everybody because most of the times when you're on campus, there's, we, we try to keep, uh, and get some ideas for a little bit of everybody on there. They may not always be at the right time, but we want to make sure everybody's included.

Brent: So they can see that part of their, you know, their part of campus moving forward. I

Matt: think one of the groups that, you know, you mentioned most of the groups there, but from a site perspective, the facilities folks are really one of the key. Components to most of these plans, because they're the ones that see the things every single day and know sort of the smaller things on campus that aren't working right.

Matt: Usually, usually there's no replacement for meeting with that group from my perspective of they always have that insight of what needs to be fixed and there's some things that are bigger and some that are smaller, but they usually have their finger on the pulse of what's going on on campus, and then the students obviously.

Matt: Those 2 groups to me are kind of vitally important. Most master plans. You're going to assume you're going to meet with admin and faculty and those sort of things, but you have to make an effort to make sure you get the feedback from the students sort of on their terms, you know, whether you need to go to the cafeteria and talk to them or whatever it is, you need to go get that information from phone surveys, all those sort of things work.

Matt: Um, but then making sure you meet with those facilities. People is really. A very valuable component to

Brent: sometimes when we're sometimes we're doing a master plan and you know, we don't do it on every one of them depends on the campus if they want to, but we'll walk through all the buildings and kind of do more of a facility assessment.

Brent: That's definitely something we want to include the facilities team on and they know what they're repairing constantly. And, you know, what are the problems are? And then we'll, you know, Take a look at, you know, some of the physical conditions of their buildings and include that in the report. Sometimes it's just the colleges want to know, you know, what they should be providing.

Brent: Maybe they have a pretty good beat on what their facilities currently are. They're just different ways of of Their maintenance, uh, the way they do it.

Skyler: Yeah, absolutely. So obviously the condition of the existing facility is going to be a big piece of that. And then I guess deciding, are we going to remove a building and replace it?

Skyler: Or are we going to try to reuse the building that's already exists as much as possible? I'm sure there's a lot of factors that probably go into that, right?

Brent: Yeah, absolutely. The majority of the campuses we work on, personally, I guess this would just be personally, but are more of the smaller private ones.

Brent: I know we, firm wide, we do work on some of the Regents ones, and Matt probably works on a lot of large campuses too. But some of the more smaller, uh, private colleges that we work with and go through with the master plan process, they gotta be good stewards of their, of their current money, their budgets, uh, their current facilities.

Brent: So if a building can be saved, they want to repurpose it. They want to keep using it. And sometimes there's a history with the building. So there's different factors. We want to take a look at the owner's name on it. Correct. Right.

Skyler: Exactly. Right. Yeah. We don't want to just bulldoze that down. Yeah. And

Brent: so they, they can't always tear one down and build a new one, but they still need to make that building functional.

Brent: So. That's, that's a big part of, uh, especially on those more private, smaller campuses.

Skyler: Absolutely. And, and I'd imagine that a big challenge to that too, with taking these older existing buildings and trying to, we've talked about this on the podcast before, but taking these older existing buildings and trying to update them or adjust them to a point that handles the better current curriculum or incoming student capacities, which might change.

Skyler: I know, obviously with COVID, that was a big hit. Was to the on campus student capacities, but being able to plan for the future, even alongside of having these older buildings, I'm sure comes in the master planning process as well.

Brent: Yeah, it can be a challenge on some of those hundred year old buildings, technology, trying to get that up to date.

Brent: And some of those, uh, it's always, uh, always some sort of HVAC thing that we got to try and update. Well, even restrooms, restrooms back then are not designed the way they are now, which is a good thing. Uh, but, you know, updating and trying to, uh, get that to fit into a new renovation is there's, there's challenges with existing buildings, especially the very older ones.

Brent: And a lot of times they are built very solidly.

Skyler: It would create some challenges and trying to add on to, or, you know, kind of finned angle the, the building spaces there. So we talked about. Those beginning steps, right? The discovery, the surveying, the campus, you're asking and talking to the staff and faculty and students, you're assessing the current facility, right?

Skyler: Where, where did things go from there? Where's kind of the next step within the master planning process. Once we have all these ideas and we've kind of brought in all these needs that we've seen within the facility.

Brent: Once we get all that background information, you know, where, where the campus currently is, where they want to go, we, we.

Brent: Start dreaming ourselves. We start putting some ideas together. Matt and I will, we'll hop on a call and we'll just start looking at the campus. You know what, here's some things we heard. You know, where can we start chipping away at some of these things? What makes sense? You know, just start putting things together.

Brent: Some things are real easy to identify. Uh, it makes sense. Some things we uh, you know, take a little bit of time and some are pretty big bold statements. That's uh,

Matt: I'll jump in there because I think that's Brent knows me well enough that a lot of times he'll get a pencil sketch from me because I usually work in colored pencils in my initial phases of and I do sort of Here's the safe plan.

Matt: And then here's the stretch of a plan. And then there's the holy crap. Where did that come from plan? Like, I kind of work on all three levels up front of like, if I can just start over. This is the biggest plan. If I heard everybody's thoughts and I can incorporate everything. Here's what it is. And then here's the.

Matt: Okay. Here's some real reality layered into it. Right. And then here's like, we only have so much funding and this is what I heard phase one needed to be. I kind of start working on all three of those plans kind of together at once. And they're, they're sketchy, right? Like they're loose and they're, they're fluid and you kind of present through them and you talk through them so that you have something to go back to those groups and talk through at that point of like, okay, here's all the information deciphered down in a picture.

Matt: You know, a picture is sort of worth a thousand words of it'll talk through it with a group and there's 14 people around a table being able to point to the graphic or a model. In some cases we created a really cool model to do this, but starting somewhere with a kind of loose graphic of a plan is really kind of where the next step is.

Matt: Or, you know, the next step in the process.

Skyler: Absolutely. And

Skyler: then I'm guessing pitching that to the people from the college that are kind of in charge of the project. That's kind of the next step that you guys take.

Brent: Yeah. Usually that's our, our first stop back. You know, once we have some ideas, we, we don't know exactly what their reaction is going to be. We want to go back, present to them.

Brent: Here's, you know, kind of what we heard. No, here's kind of some of our initial thoughts. You know, some of them are. Big and bold dreams and, you know, see kind of how they react to it. My, um, and I were just on one not too long ago that, uh, I think we had a pretty big, bold statement. We, uh, just had a private meeting with the president just to kind of vet it out before we, we put it out there.

Matt: Do we really even want to show this to other people, the

Brent: other leadership team? So, um, you know, everyone's different. So, you know, we just try to, how are they going to react? And, you know, we, we have this idea, but you know, we may just start with one person, see where it goes and. They want to present it out there.

Brent: We'll do that quite

Matt: candidly, though. That's our job, right? Like, yeah, we're there to push them. They hired us if they just wanted us to document their stuff, they could hire somebody else. We're the group. We want to come in and we want to, we want to hear all that information. We want to push you. Like, if this is the big ideas we heard from you, this is what it looks like on paper.

Matt: If you want to get there, let's figure out how to get there. Or, you know, it's time to dial back or here's the, you tell us, but we want to make sure that you have the big ideas in front of you.

Brent: Yeah, we want to have them getting those and then, you know, budget and, you know, what they think they can fundraise comes into factor later on, but let's, let's get those big ideas out there to So

Skyler: at this point in the process, budget isn't necessarily so much of a conversation at the moment.

Skyler: I'm sure to some extent it's, it's considered, it has to be considered, you know, you pitched a huge idea and they're going to be like, wow, I don't know how we would ever get there, how we'd ever achieve that. But for the most part, I mean, you guys are sharing the general concept of all the possibilities that are out there.

Skyler: Are these sort of leaders within the university? Are they kind of helping you narrow those down or focus those? Or what does that kind of look like when you start pitching that feedback that you've already received and analyzed?

Brent: Yeah, I think, uh, there's a little bit when we're. Going in here. There's probably a little bit of, you know, budget in our minds of, you know, what they could do, you know, there's like the one we were talking about that there was something, there was a stadium relocation, um, but there were some things that their current stadium was going to need.

Brent: So it wasn't a complete redo. Um, they were going to have to put some. Uh, invest some money in there anyway. So, but yeah, we want to keep a little bit of a budget, but you know, our mind on a budget a little bit, just because we know there's going to be some things that it's come down to that. Um, but we still want to get those ideas just, uh, out there to see, maybe it'll go somewhere else with it, but it could die right away.

Brent: And we, we know where we need to focus on. Yeah, I guess maybe

Matt: that's where I was going to go with it is, is it's, it's, again, we're throwing out those big ideas. And I think I mentioned earlier, sort of three different levels of plans. Typically when we present these two groups, somebody is going to grab onto different pieces of all of those.

Matt: And then we sort of need to morph those three things into one sort of vision that's gets to most of the tasks at hand. And then we kind of go through this whole process again, right? Like we then need to go back to the groups because at that point, then. Athletics is going to have heard one thing and admin's going to have heard one thing and the faculty is going to hear a different thing.

Matt: Even though it's the same plan, they're all going to have different visions of that particular plan. So it's sort of again, narrowing that focus down of combine the big picture around, and then again, look at it from those lenses that each of them have. And we start to balance all of those items on the plan itself.

Matt: And then at some point, the budget, which is why we're talking about this, does come into play, but we still have to keep Funneling those things down and comparing the new budget at the same time.

Brent: And the campus usually has a good idea of, okay, well, we just raised money for a new dorm. So maybe housing moves a little bit lower on the priority.

Brent: But, oh, I think I have a donor that'd be interested in that project. So sometimes that, you know, there'll be different priorities they may need. Priorities may shift around as we get towards the end of the master plan, that with what they think they can get accomplished.

Matt: Think about like priorities can shift, but a master plan is also setting aside spaces.

Matt: So sometimes we're actually protecting land for future things. So we've identified as a group that, you know, said building belongs in this location because it's sort of a hub or the, you know, it's the new student union for campus. This is the piece of property it belongs on. Well, The auditorium maybe also wants to be built there, like then you have to have some of those debates.

Matt: Even if the auditorium is phase one, we move it somewhere else to protect that other space. Like, those are discussions that happen to of what does become that phase one project. Because in most cases, we're doing a master plan because somebody, they have funds or they have an idea of what that next phase needs to be, but they want to make sure they don't do something that sort of Pushes them into a corner in the future at the same time.

Matt: So it's, it's again, a balancing act and every project is different.

Skyler: I'm sure timing also probably comes into play too, right? Like as a, as a pretty big factor, we need the space for the next year. You know, once the summer, summer is over and the students come back, you know, we need to have access to the space.

Skyler: So we can't have construction going on, you know, once summertime is over. So I'd imagine that's also part of how you guys prioritize the various elements of the master planning.

Brent: Yeah. And, you know, some of the. Items that come out of our, you know, discovery phase and, you know, the ideas that we have for their campus, you know, some things may have to occur before one thing can happen.

Brent: So, you know, we may be moving some departments for something around or to another building that building has got to be moved first and then that one can be renovated. So there's a lot of things, different order of things that need to happen. on some of the instances to get a, to get the master plan accomplished.

Skyler: So are there any other steps that I'm missing that we haven't discussed so far, as far as the final master plan comes into play? Is there sort of anything I missed? Because I know it can be really complicated and I know we kind of simplify it a little bit, but I don't want to oversimplify. I want to make sure that we touch on all the different areas.

Matt: The one thing I guess I'll say there is, is, you know, we, we talked a lot about going back to the steering committee group or the admin group that gets set. That's critical. You have to do that. But I think one of the pieces that I always like to make time for is the focus groups that we created in the beginning, the ones where we just asked them to dream big and talk about the project.

Matt: I want to go back to those same exact individual groups. Once we've narrowed the process down to sort of a. somewhat clear vision, still sketchy, not finished yet, and be able to talk to them of like, Hey, I heard you the first time. These are the things you told us. Here's what we talked about in the plan.

Matt: Either here's where it is in the plan or here's why it's not in the plan. I want to make sure that we kind of build consensus before we ever go, you know, it's not a finished plan, but we value their opinions at the beginning. I also want them to value our thoughts that, you know, Hey, we heard you, we went through the process and I don't want to offend them.

Matt: The worst thing you can do is like, I told you to do that. And it's not in the plan. That's not what we want. Like, I want to be able to sit there and explain to them of all these other factors that had to play into this. Here's the reason that it's not in the plan. Because ultimately, those folks are ambassadors, right?

Matt: We want them to be supporters of this plan. And we're done just like the university does. And I think you build that throughout the process by making sure that all of those groups are involved all the way through.

Brent: It's a lot easier to build that consensus if they, uh, They think they've provided their input and, you know, it's been, they've been heard, uh, throughout the process,

Skyler: right?

Skyler: They want to be valued. They want to, they want to know that someone is noticing what they're thinking that notices the challenges and the struggles that they're dealing with. And then they want to make sure that those challenges and struggles are part of the conversation, even if it doesn't necessarily get addressed exactly the way that they were hoping it would be when it comes to the scope of the project.

Skyler: And I

Matt: think that the other big thing, and you, you're, you took it all the way to completion, but I think that. The whole phasing discussion and, you know, budget and all those sort of things, even once we get the vision where I think everybody in the room is nodding that they agree that the plan looks right.

Matt: You know, this is 40 years from now. This is what we want campus to look like. There's still a lot of things that have to happen, right? So as we go back and talk through how we go from today to that 40 year vision, Again, all the different angles and all the different groups within campus are going to have a different way to get there.

Matt: So having some sort of, you know, in the last one we did, we actually had a retreat out of town retreat with the group. And we kind of took this master plan version and said, okay, let's talk about priorities here. We know what athletics wants to do in the next 20 years. And we know where academics needs to go, but we also know, you know, the safety and security aspect, these things have to happen.

Matt: Let's talk through all these, let's balance this all out. Like we're all in the same room. We all hear the same priorities. We all know what pressures we each have. Let's align them and then adjust the plan accordingly and show it in a phasing diagram that matches that. Um, that's often as complicated as the master plan itself is getting everyone in the room to kind of agree at what those steps are.

Matt: Cause it's complicated. And then. Even after we do all of that, sort of the first thing we say is, is the donor comes in the door two days after we leave and the whole plan changes because that money is there for a certain project. We get that. And that happens quite often. But I guess it's our job to take all the information we have at the time we have it and try to get everything.

Matt: Everybody in that room on the same page saying, this is where we're at.

Skyler: And

Matt: so it's as much a pretty picture as it is a effort in communication and working together and, you know, creating a collective drive when we walk out the door, the worst thing we can do is this really cool booklet of stuff, you know, Hey, we spent nine months doing this.

Matt: Here it is cool. And it sits on someone's desk. Like, that's the last thing we ever want to do. I want to make sure everything gets used and momentum keeps going even after we're not there.

Brent: Yeah, the one that retreat that Matt's talking about. That's the one we built the physical model for and yeah, we hadn't really, we hadn't done that before and I really enjoyed that process.

Brent: We met with them. It was really the leadership team and then they got their board together. So, Those on the leadership team that had been involved with the process, he's kind of split up into kind of helping guide the board. And then we went kind of into our three different pillars that student life, the athletics, the live, learn, played type of thing and, uh, had them go through and, you know, what are their thoughts on, we gave them a little bit of overview of, you know, what we were hearing from campus, kind of the background, our initial thoughts, And then we let them spend some time in the model, just dreaming a little bit of two, just moving some things around.

Brent: And then we brought all the groups together to kind of, okay, no, I want this spot right here, this one's for this, you know, just trying to help helps grow that consensus. And that was a, I think that was a very beneficial and a lot of fun. I also found

Matt: that that one in particular was unique because everybody claimed the same spot.

Matt: And it was a spot that I don't think when we started the process, most people would have been like, eh, okay, take it or leave it. But by the time we were done, it was like, this is the coolest spot on all of campus. And everybody wants to be there.

Skyler: Was it, was it just because it was near the parking lot or something like that?

Matt: It was not parking in this case. It was sort of just the central hub of the, what is it? Learn, live, play. Play stuff that we based that plan on. I think if you kind of mirrored all those things on the campus plan, this was the spot that made the most sense for those things. So,

Skyler: so with those three pillars that you guys are talking about, is this a common thing that you guys use often when you do your master planning or is this specific to a particular project?

Skyler: I just noticed that it was kind of a, a reoccurring theme.

Brent: I think it may have started maybe that way as per project, but I think it kind of evolves because that, you know, when you look at a student on a campus, you know, that's what. They're doing so that their life is, you know, what am I? I'm studying. I'm playing.

Brent: I'm eating. I'm living. I'm sleeping here. You know, what am I doing in my spare time at all? All of that is incorporated. So I think a good master plan needs to. Take into account all those different aspects of the students, you know, life on campus

Matt: as Brent was talking. I just thought of this. It's sort of like a zoning master plan of a campus.

Matt: Like, if you think about zoning and where the city does it of, you know, you've got your residential over here and single families further out. Well, think of it of dorm life. And then where does that kind of coincide with your play life? And what's going on? And how, how far along are you? far is it from school?

Matt: And can you get away from one and still be part of the other? But ultimately on a campus, it's, it's about those spaces that everybody likes to see and be seen in, you know, the usually revolves around food, you know, wherever the, whether some type of food or coffee on campus is going to be the hotspot. So how do you kind of use those spaces and figure out how play and learning can be kind of, uh, Revolving around those spaces.

Matt: But at the same time, you know, the connectivity over to the dorm needs to be safe and quick and visible and lit and all those sorts of things too. So you kind of create again, this sort of diagram of how things all fit together. And I think using those three terms makes sense because that's kind of what everybody kind of rings home with at this point, but it's still kind of just about quality of life and student life on

Skyler: campus.

Skyler: Absolutely. And if you think about a campus, it's a lot like a city or a town community or a hub, right? Like there's people living in that space. They're working. They're growing. They're doing all these things, but they're also playing. They're trying to enjoy their lives and things like that. So yeah, there's a lot of similarities there that are a key focus when we think about it that way for sure.

Brent: We can't even have to take that. Into the community into account because a lot of them are in a community. So, you know, the students are going to go off campus, you know, where are they going off campus? What are they, what are they doing there? You know, and then, uh, especially when athletics and then like, uh, theater or, you know, music, the community is coming on campus, you know, how's that interaction going to be?

Brent: So. We got to take the community into account as well. That's a good segue,

Matt: Brent, because I think, I think you know this, but I've always mentioned too of, you know, campuses are in the business of recruiting just as much as anything else. And the community plays a big part in that just as much as the college does.

Matt: So we oftentimes, as I'm visiting a campus for the very first time, all intentionally drive a couple different approaches to it. So like if I'm coming into Briarcliff, for instance, like I'm going to come from one direction of how I would come from Des Moines. And then how would I actually approach campus that I was coming from San Diego.

Matt: Who falls, like what's that experience and how is it different? And every college is also different on that front. Like, do they have the opportunity of, you know, do they have highway frontage? Do they have billboards out on the high? Like what sort of things do they use and how do they brand themselves? I think there's a lot of things we can do from a master planning perspective that can help themselves in the long run with branding and communication efforts.

Matt: Uh, you know, what is that iconic selfie moment? Everybody's got a cell phone nowadays. Right? I think that's one of the questions we actually ask in the survey. It is. Yep. Like if you're going to be on campus and you're going to send a selfie back to your friends, where is it? What do you do? Where do you go there?

Matt: And why is it that space? Give us a little bit more information.

Brent: I love that. I love that. On Matt, on the one I know you, how does Google get me there? Like if I'm a first time student and I'm coming for a campus visit, what's my route from my house once I get into that community and how do I get to campus?

Brent: So that's something we want to take a look at too. And um, you know, Matt said, you know the recruiting but you know retention too for faculty and students as well That community plays a huge role in that that aspect of it Well,

Skyler: and obviously there's only so much that you can do from a community perspective I can't go out and change the buildings within the town or city and and such But how does that kind of coincide with the campus and how does it sort of play out?

Skyler: Partner with the campus. And I'm sure the community is an element of what you guys are surveying to some extent. And I know Matt, you've kind of mentioned it already a little bit. I think there's actually

Matt: lots of examples out there where we've identified colleges within communities and then they jointly apply for grants and start to be more proactive in working together to help enhance the environment, you know, on your approaches into campus of, I mean, I guess I'm thinking of Simpson college in particular, like the Indianola corridor that goes through campus there.

Matt: You know, This, the effort that the city and the college have done together to work on things like that. There's lots of opportunities out there like that. I think you can see that they've worked together and it kind of started the process. Maybe they were working on it before, but putting them all together and looking at what grants are out there.

Matt: How does the D. O. T. impact the campus site? There's lots of things we can look at that certainly help the visibility of campus and help the marketing and retention.

Brent: And those, uh, those smaller private colleges we work on are usually in a smaller group. Town too. So there's a lot of, you know, the school district there, the city there, they're sharing assets, you know, so we don't all need to build a football stadium.

Brent: You know, maybe we can just build a one nice one and all share it. And so there's, there's some, uh, involvement with the community and K through 12 school district and a lot of those, uh, areas

Skyler: Yeah, absolutely. So we've talked about it in previous episodes before, but the importance of the school in a city or a town and how much the success from within the school can equal success within the city as a whole, right?

Skyler: And that goes from K 12 all the way into higher education as well. So if you've got a college that's really succeeding and thriving, you're going to have a city or a town that's also very much succeeding and thriving as well. I think that we went through everything for the master planning. Is there anything that I missed?

Skyler: Like I said, No, sorry. Like I said, Brent, you've created a really nice overview here, and I don't want to miss anything between you or, or Matt. So you guys have already given a wealth of knowledge today on this topic, and I don't want to miss any additional information that you guys might have.

Matt: I think one thing is, is understanding the final product.

Matt: How is the owner going to use it? What's the audience? We've done everything from a video that kind of highlighted, you know, phase one to phase two, and you kind of fly in and out of the campus and change colors. And we can do all levels of graphics that really makes it pop, or we can give you a, you know, a booklet or a narrative or whatever you need.

Matt: All those things are accompanied with a budget. But I think making sure that we, whoever is going to be the ambassador, the main ambassador of the master plan, how do they want to use it? What's the audience, how can we help you make this happen is probably the biggest goal that I want to make sure we get through at the end of this podcast is we're giving you the tools to be successful.

Matt: Like, we went through this process, we have all the information, how can we document it to make it the most helpful for you going forward? And then the other one is, is we're never going away. Like, if we give you something that day and it isn't exactly what you need, Three weeks later, call us back. Like we want to be, we want to be helpful though.

Matt: Again, I said this earlier, but I don't want the plan to sit on a shelf. We want things to happen. We want to continue the momentum that we started through this process and whatever we can do to help that happen. We're here for it.

Skyler: Yeah. I think it's a misconception for sure. Like the architects or whoever else is involved with this pre planning process that they're just going to hand in the plan and then they're going to just take off.

Brent: I think that, you know, after we leave it, we spend a lot of time with those. Those folks on campus and the the people you have to know we have developed that relationship and you know we want to see that success, you know, we want to see what them to continue that because uh, We we put a lot of our our person in there as well.

Brent: Like, you know, we want to see that successful. So

Skyler: Absolutely. Yeah, we're uh We're not going away. We're sticking around until the end of this project.

Brent: Well, I'd like to thank Matt for joining us today. He's, he's been a great team partner on a lot of these that we have done, and I'm glad you were able to join us today to discuss it.

Brent: Glad to be here.

Matt: It was a fun discussion.

Skyler: Well, Matt, seriously, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the podcast. I know you've got a crazy schedule, both of you guys. Have a crazy schedules working on projects, like the ones that you guys have talked about so far and so many more. So I really appreciate the time that you guys have taken to give and share your expertise with everybody who listens to the show, show them a little bit about what it looks like from the inside, uh, of what master planning and higher education is all about.

Skyler: Glad to do it. I'll be back anytime you want me. Awesome. Sounds good. All right. Thanks guys. If you'd like to find out more about the Laying the Foundation podcast, you can head over to any podcast streaming platform such as Spotify, iTunes, Google Podcasts, and others. You can also find out more about CMBA Architects through social media such as Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram.

Skyler: Additionally, you can head over to the CMBA website at cmbaarchitects. com. If you're an architecture or design professional or an intern looking for an internship within those fields, please be sure to check out our website and click on the careers tab to find out more about what opportunities we offer.

Skyler: This has been another episode of the laying the foundation podcast. We'll see you next time.