Principal Architect: Troy Keilig delves into the power of design to influence our emotions, behaviors, and overall well-being. He discusses how factors like color, light, and spatial arrangement can shape our experiences and create environments that promote productivity, creativity, and a sense of belonging. Listen to learn how design can be used to create spaces that not only look good but also feel good.

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Episode Transcript

(Skyler): All right, thank you, everybody, for joining us for another episode of the Laying the Foundation podcast. My name is Skyler. I am your host, and today, joining me for this special episode of our Leading the Way series is one of our amazing principal architects: Troy, from our Grand Island office. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for being willing to share your expertise.

(Troy): Thank you for having me.

(Skyler): Absolutely. Absolutely. It's always, it's always good to be able to connect with you and your team up in Grand Island. We don't see each other enough. So it's nice to at least be able to do so digitally.

(Troy): Yes, it is always nice to stay in touch.

(Skyler): Yeah, absolutely. It's important. And today you're going to be talking to us about an important topic, and that is the psychology of design. So I think we probably touched on this in a previous episode, because it's a broad topic. There are a lot of areas within this whole concept of psychology within design. And we've touched on a couple of things here and there throughout the podcast, up until this point. One of the ones that I always like to reference is Lee likes to bring up biophilic design and the factors of how natural elements can affect your space, and such. Are there any specific areas that you want to kind of touch on, and then we can jump into them from there?

(Troy): I think what you touched on is important. It is a big aspect of design, looking at psychology, and you can narrow it down to the finest things you can talk about color, which I believe we had a podcast that talked about how the color affects people. In design, with our interiors, natural light is another one. Biophilia design is another one. But the way I really like looking at the psychology of design is, how does a space make you feel when you're in it? How does a person use the space, and how does that make them want to be there? How does that make them excel? How does that space get the best out of people when they're using it? And that's probably broader than that, makes it a little tough to narrow down because all these other little factors make that happen. So, when I look at design and I look at spaces, when I go into them, I'm immediately affected by, how do I feel?

(Skyler): Right. Okay.

(Troy): Does this make me comfortable? Does it make me happy? Does it make me anxious? Do I not want to be in this space because of the way the elements are in the space? And I think it's an important topic because when we talk to owners and especially in schools and healthcare, look at the history of healthcare. Everything in the past was white, sterile, because everybody thought that was healthy. But now research shows that when people are more comfortable in the environment, when it feels more like home or a space that they're used to being in, they heal faster, they learn faster. So that is just technology and research learning from the past, that, "Hey, we weren't doing it right. We can get people to learn as long as they're comfortable and calm in the environment." And so that's where I think psychology in design really matters, because in the end, we're improving people's lives and we're making things move and move forward faster.

(Skyler): Absolutely. Absolutely. And like you said, the people who own these facilities and these spaces that we're working on, they want to know what that element is or various elements are to better the spaces and better that experience for whoever's coming into them. and so that's what we, or at least you guys, as the architects, bring to any project it's like that knowledge and that fact that you guys are constantly looking into the research and trying to find out what, of those elements, are playing such key factors into bettering a space in a number of different ways.

(Troy): And I think we look at it, I mean, it's always been, being an architect is about the health, safety, and welfare of people in the environment. So that's why I think we need to make these spaces. It's the welfare part. We want them to feel good. We want them to be at their best in these facilities. So we need to address the way people use them and what's in those. going from natural light, going from biophilia design, going to using the right colors.

(Troy): Because a lot of times in, let's say, schools, for example, you have different areas that kids will be in. You have a cafeteria, you have a library, you have a classroom, you have a gymnasium. All of those you want to get a different feel from kids out of. So they're all designed a little bit differently. And you can even go into kindergarten rooms, up to senior and high school rooms. They're going to be designed a little bit differently because of where they're at maturity level. Maturity and how they actually use the spaces. So, yeah, in kindergarten and young kids, there's a lot more color. They want to feel excited; they want to be excited to be at the school and learn. They're going to have more, possibly more open space. That's changing as we get into higher-ed now, where there are more open spaces. It allows people to be where they want to be.

(Skyler): Right.

(Troy): So what I mean by that is a lot of times now in space schools, we have group environments, we have individual spaces for people to go. Because this is the tough thing when you think about the psychology of design. Every person who's entering into that building is different, and they want a different aspect of the design. And we have to be willing to offer that and show how it's a benefit to our owners that these different spaces allow for kids and individuals to be comfortable and act in the learning environment they want.

(Skyler): Wow. We've got K12, we've got higher ed. You talked about the healthcare side of it with the healing. So I just kind of want to jump back a little bit and look at what are some of the other things that we've done up until having a lot of this research and stuff. What are the things that we've done wrong in the past? Not us, like CMBA, but I just mean from a design perspective. You mentioned healthcare facilities, and they're like, "We want everything to be white so that it looks sterile, so it looks clean." And we were like, "Well, people don't like that. And it doesn't help with the healing process to have everything just be this kind of terrifying white space all around you." What are some other elements? And maybe we jump into the K12, and maybe we jump into the higher ed, too. What, up until this point, we've kind of had it wrong. And what is research showing is the right way to do it or a better way?

(Troy): Well, it's tough to say if it was wrong or right. It's what we had at the time.

(Skyler): Yeah, yeah.

(Troy): I think the one thing that always strikes me when you talk about K12 is the idea of cells and bells, which is that classrooms where, basically, there was a central corridor, you had classrooms on each side. You went in, you had rows of seats, and that's all you had. Everything was lecture-based. We've learned that, actually, hands-on learning is a better environment for kids to learn by actually doing, and then even cross learning with other classes, bringing classes together to develop. Why do you need to know this aspect and this aspect together? Because they work together in the future.

(Skyler): Yeah.

(Troy): So, but I think the cells and bells, it's like everybody was in their classroom, the bell went off, everybody went to the hallway, and everybody went back to the classroom. And that, yes, we still have bells, but we don't necessarily have what a lot of people consider a typical classroom environment.

(Skyler): Sure.

(Troy): We are much more open. We are much more. Might not. You might have a classroom set up in a lecture for maybe part of the classroom, and then it's disappeared and it's groups, and it's a lot of learning on your own.

(Skyler): Right.

(Troy): And I think that's the biggest thing, we as a society no longer want to "teach." We want our students to learn and learn how to learn. That is a lot more important now because we could. We're always learning. I still learn absolutely. I mean, it's the important aspect of learning: HOW to learn. I mean, it kind of sounds funny saying it that way, but it's no longer just teaching and memorization.

(Skyler): Yes, absolutely. And that was something that I learned recently. You talked to a lot of people from the older generations about their process, especially when it comes to math. I know a lot of people bring this up, and this concept. But the younger generations have a process that they're trying to do in their head when they solve the math problems. Whereas a lot of the older generations, you see a lot of the memorization of the tables that they would memorize. One and two equals three, and they would just go through those. And it was a memorization process. It is really interesting to see the difference in how education has changed and then, of course, how we're designing to promote that change, that interactivity, that learning to learn and things along those lines. So what about when it comes to trying to evoke emotions within a particular space? We talked about healthcare, trying to promote healing through creating that familiarity with the space and how that's designed. You just mentioned how, with K12, we're trying to promote this concept of learning over the lecture memorization process. What about emotional response? Because you mentioned before the idea that I don't want to walk into a space and feel anxious or scared or whatever the case. How are we relieving those fears with design?

(Troy): I think a lot of anxiety when people come into a space can be alleviated with, and this will sound kind of weird, but with signage. Because when you go into a space and you don't know where to go, that's when you start to feel anxious, and you start to feel confused. So, having signage where people know where they're supposed to be, and if I first walk into a building, I want to know where reception is. I want to be able to go and talk to somebody so they can help me, so they know who I'm there to meet or who I'm there to see, and go into the building from there. But signage is a big one. Wayfinding is another term. But it's also lighting. I prefer natural light. I think most people do, because it's something we're always around, we're outside, we have that natural light. And when you come into a building and it's all artificial light, it can be very draining on people.

(Skyler): Oh yeah, absolutely.

(Troy): Especially if it's fluorescent lighting, it can be really draining on people. So, having that natural light come in and help them feel like they're still part of the outside, and something they are used to, is important. And that's important with biophilic design, because that's another aspect of feeling comfortable, bringing nature into a space.

(Skyler): Absolutely.

(Troy): Is that with wood grains? Yes, that helps. Is it with using plants and greenery? And a lot of it comes in with using colors in nature to bring that design into the building. And I think that invokes an emotional response in everybody, and it's just a way to keep a user feeling calm.

(Skyler): Yes, absolutely. And I think that's going to tie in, and you already started talking about it, which is color and design. And, like you mentioned before, we do absolutely have an episode that we've talked about previously where we discussed with some of our interior designers, Shelby and Amanda, about the psychology of using color in different spaces and what that evokes. But can you touch on that a little bit, and a little bit of the concepts of how colors can change our moods, and go along with the emotion discussion of how it can adjust our emotions?

(Troy): Right. I mean, all colors have a different temperature, whether it's a cool color or a warm color. And that's really what you want to use when you're looking into a space.

(Skyler): Yes.

(Troy): Yellows can be bright, and hard, and warm, and you feel that. But there are yellows that are cool. It's just that color temperature that really adjusts to somebody and how they feel. It's like when I go into a room and it's a cool room, cool colors. Maybe some might be blues, might be some greens that are more cool-related. You just. I don't know If I can describe it very well, but it's just a change in your... how you feel when you walk in there. I become relaxed in those colors, whereas warm colors get me a little more excited. And so that's why I think in some schools, in some of the younger classrooms, we're using some more warmer colors just to. In certain areas. In the active areas, you want to use those in the active areas because you want that excitement. I mean, in classrooms, if you're doing some lectures, you want to keep people cooler. That's where a lot of times we'll use more cool colors. But we'll also bring in lighting that has that cool color associated with it to help with the emotional activity of the children.

(Skyler): And obviously lighting is going to affect whatever colors that you're putting into it.

(Troy): Absolutely. And of course we don't want to make a classroom, even with a lecture space to calm or go in a direction with that calming, that's so far to the point where students are falling asleep or something like that. Like it's affecting that end of things.

(Skyler): I mean, there's obviously color matching, which is a key element, and the lighting, as you mentioned before. And I'm sure there's like how the color is being used as well. There's probably a lot that we could talk about, the imagery in a space, and the association of using the color and the imagery to create a specific emotion or something along those lines.

(Troy): Right! Yep. And it depends on where the colors are put. Where's everybody looking? Are they seeing that color, or is it behind them? Where is it in the room? Is it all walls? Is that too much? And that's why a lot of times the accent wall became pretty popular because it gave you that color. But the other walls actually kind of mitigated how much activity it did.

(Skyler): So it's not too overbearing where I feel like I'm completely surrounded by a particular color.

(Troy): Yes.

(Skyler): So, I think we've touched on a lot of the elements, those sorts of subcategories within the psychology of design. Where do you think things are going to be headed? Or do we see a good trend towards maintaining this concept of looking into and researching the psychology of design? Or does it feel like we're kind of stagnant? We've pretty much figured everything out.

(Troy): I don't think we've figured everything out. I think we are still pushing, trying to figure out what all we can put into designing a building to get those emotions we want. I mean, if you're looking in private buildings and structures and that, I mean, the owners want to have people react a certain way.

(Skyler): Right.

(Troy): Where we focus, we're looking at more public spaces. Hospitals, higher ed, K12 education, municipal buildings. We need to adapt for all people to be able to use those facilities. So that's where it still gets a little tough and gray areas, because everybody wants a different feeling when they enter a building. So, how can we do the best we can with where we're at with space and light and colors and giving people the spaces they want to feel safe in? What is that? I think we have to make people feel safe, so we have to have secure building security. But with that security, we have to still be an open enough building to have natural light bringing in color. And I think the biggest thing that we're still learning is the biophilia design. It's come a long way since that idea came forward. More materials are looking more and more like exterior, like the outside which is great. But I still think we have a way to go. And, do I know exactly what it's going to be? I don't right now. There's a lot more research being done on the psychology of design. And the bad part about research with psychological design is that it takes time.

(Skyler): Yeah.

(Troy): It's not something where you can just design it and in a day or two you're getting results.

(Skyler): Right.

(Troy): It's something you have to research and analyze over the years before you can come up with, does this work or not?

(Skyler): Right. And that's yeah, obviously, a big challenge because it takes a lot of resources and money to build a space. This is what we're working on. It's exactly what was mentioned before with the healthcare facilities. That was what they were working with at the time. That was what they knew at the time or thought they knew at the time. And that's what they rolled with. And so I feel like there are also elements of it that are ever changing as well. Like we understand psychology as it currently is, and compare that with the research and the spaces that we're building. But things change over time and adjust and cultures change. I think that's a big thing. You mentioned it before with a lot of the spaces that we designed, the K12s, especially the K12s, the higher-ed spaces, the healthcare spaces, the municipal spaces. I mean, those are our primary sectors that we dabble in. And every single one of those is being used by everyone.

(Troy): Right.

(Skyler): Kids are going to school from every facet of every culture and everything. Same thing with, you know, colleges, same thing with healthcare. Everybody needs healthcare, so we're designing and trying to get these psychological things, but people are coming from a lot of different cultures and backgrounds, and certain things might elicit different emotions and responses than from one person to another. So it is definitely a big, big challenge for sure to navigate through this, this very intense maze.

(Troy): Yes.

(Skyler): Of everything there. So within that. Because there's no one answer. How do we do it? How do we keep up with it?

(Troy): Well, and I think when you look at our designs, that's why none of them are cookie-cutter. None of them. We are not reusing a design from a previous school. We are not. We work with the individual school districts, individual hospitals, and individual cities to design their spaces for their communities. Also, it's conversations that lead our design with the users, with the owners that create these spaces that work best for them. Because even in our region, we could go to another town, and they're like, "We're not like that. We need more like this." And it's those conversations that are important because they know their community, they know their school district, they know how a lot of things work best for them.

(Skyler): Yes!

(Troy): We want to, not necessarily, push, but show them different designs, different ideas that could help excel and help push their district to a different space. And show them how having a more open environment, using more natural light, bringing these colors in, is going to increase their student retention. And I think that's a big thing, making sure students want to come to school. Because when they're going to school, we know they're safe, they're at school, we know where they are. They're not wanting to, I don't know, skip School or whatever, not go to class. But it comes into different things, and that's a whole different topic that you've got people, you've got higher ed wanting to attract students and retain them. How do your spaces do that? You want K12, you want them to come to school, and you want them to stay in school that day. Healthcare is a little different. They want people to come in, but they want them to heal fast and get back home. So that's all through the psychology of design to get people to feel better about where they're at.

(Skyler): Yes, absolutely. Creating that environment that's positive across the board.

(Troy): Yes.

(Skyler): Because I don't think there are many places, or people, or companies, or whatever the case that want to give their customers or attendees or clients or whatever a bad experience. They don't want them to come in and be angry or have negative emotions when they leave. So, I think there's definitely, across the board, but within that, as we've talked about, there are different goals and different experiences, and I love that you mentioned the part about how we go to these communities, and we talk to these communities. We might be design experts, we might be the people that, you know, we obviously have extensive research and education on how to build a place that stays together, it doesn't collapse and it you know, and we've done all the research and such for what we're talking about right now, which is the psychology of design and how to help them develop a space that's beneficial for those that are going to be using it specific to them. But they know their community and they know what things that their community is looking for. And that jumps back to what we were talking about previously, where people are coming in from a lot of backgrounds into these spaces. And so knowing that community and then marrying it with our expertise within design is how we come up with such a unique and important and special space and project for whoever it is that we're designing for.

(Troy): Yep.

(Skyler): Yeah, I think I got it. Yeah, I get. All right. Hopefully, our listeners get it too.

(Troy): Another thing is the accessibility of spaces. But really, with the accessibility of spaces, it was when the ADA Act happened. We have to create spaces that are accessible to everybody. And I think a lot of times, the important fact that a lot of people miss when we say we have accessible design is that anybody has accessibility issues. We want them to have the same experience as an able-bodied person. Absolute. We want them to go through the same entrance. We want them to have those. We don't want to create something that's, oh, your ramps back over here to go through this back way. We don't want that because that is another hurdle they have to get over, even though they already have an accessibility issue. So, create a space where everybody can access in the same way. They can use the same bathrooms. They can use the same counters. Everything should be together that they could use, so everybody gets the experience we want them to have.

(Skyler): So I love that. That's amazing. Yeah, absolutely. Making sure that we use, like you said. I mean, what's the point of designing a big, fancy entryway or whatever to, like, really just hit them with some, like, cool colors and designs that really just evoke so much excitement and emotion, and have people that are there to use the space but can't get that experience.

(Troy): Right.

(Skyler): What's the point? Yeah, exactly. So that's. That's awesome.

(Troy): Yeah.

(Skyler): Yeah, we've got to make sure that we can give them the exact same experience as everybody else. That's so key. Right, right.

(Troy): Everybody should experience the building in the same way, regardless of age or disability.

(Skyler): Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. Couldn't have said it better myself. Well, perfect. Troy, I really appreciate you sitting down with me and sharing your expertise and your passion on this whole topic of psychology, because there are a lot of topics that everybody gets to choose from, and this is the one that you chose. And I think this is so powerful, all the elements of this, and so important when it comes to designing a space. So, thank you so much for chatting with me.

(Troy): Well, thank you for having me.

(Skyler): Absolutely. Great. Anytime.

(Skyler): If you'd like to find out more about the Laying the Foundation podcast, you can head over to any podcast streaming platform such as Spotify, iTunes, Google Podcasts, and others. You can also find out more about CMBA Architects through social media, such as Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. Additionally, you can head over to the CMBA website at cmbalearchitects.com. If you're an architecture or design professional or an intern looking for an internship within those fields, please be sure to check out our website and click on the Careers tab to find out more about what opportunities we offer. This has been another episode of the Laying the Foundation podcast. We'll see you next time.