We're sitting down with CMBA Principal Architect Adam Van Gorp to explore the profound impact of mentorship. How mentorship is a two-way street, where both the mentor and mentee have the opportunity to learn and grow from each other, a concept applicable in every aspect of life. Adam shares insights into how this philosophy is embedded in our firm's culture, highlighting our summer intern program, which provides students with invaluable learning experiences, as well as CMBA University, our internal program designed to help every team member better understand the inner workings of the firm. Join us to learn why building a culture of shared knowledge is essential for professional and personal development.
(Skyler): Alright, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Laying the Foundation podcast. My name is Skyler, I'm your host, and today we're doing another special episode of our leading the way series where I sit down and talk to the principal architects from across all of our offices here at CMBA to delve into something that they're particularly passionate about, something that they really want to share, with all of us, and highlight. So today I am joined by Adam Van Gorp from our Spencer office. Adam, welcome to the show.
(Adam): Thank you, thanks for having me.
(Skyler): Absolutely, super glad to have you. And today we're talking about something really interesting, which is the concept of mentorship. And no matter where you are, no matter what you're working on, obviously, that's not a concept that's exclusive to architecture. It doesn't matter what company you work for, it doesn't matter what you do within your company. There's probably a situation where mentorship is going to come into play one way or another. So, I mean, even if it's just, you know, you yourself starting at this company and you don't know how things work and you need to learn how things work, it's all part of it. There are some elements. So I'm really excited to talk mentorship strategy. Hear some of the ideas of how we at CMBA have been using mentorship, how you've been using mentorship, and we'll jump into that.
So, first off, Adam, we had talked about this concept of sort of the old ideas of what mentorship is or should look like versus the newer ideas of what mentorship can be and how we can improve upon it. Do you want to talk a little bit about that and what that kind of means?
(Adam): Sure. Yeah, so we really have been thinking about, you know, what the core of mentorship really is. And so much more today, you know, we realized that technology and architecture and the way that information travels is changing so quickly anymore, that really had to become, instead of a very much a top down one way flow of information of, you know, here is me as like the senior architect that I need to sit down and kind of give you all the information to be an accessible young architect in this profession.
And so, you know, as a young architect in this profession, that doesn't work the same way as it has in the past. We don't expect people to do hours and hours of drafting in order to understand how to put things together anymore, right? And so, thinking about that process and thinking about how much of a two way street that really is and how much we rely on new architects and new people just thought of college, learning new software, new ideas, new friends and architecture and all those things and really taking advantage of what they know coming in and then kind of giving them the guidelines and the guide rails to succeed along that path is really worked out really well for us and trying to take advantage, full advantage of what they know of the software that they're using of all those kinds of things, whatever that is that they're learning in college, taking that and kind of hitting the ground running and implementing those into a wide variety of the projects that we're currently working on.
(Skyler): Yeah, absolutely. Technology is a really great example because obviously colleges are working really hard to stay on that kind of cutting edge, so that they can teach their students, this is the next generation of whatever this area of study is going to look like.
(Adam): For sure.
(Skyler): And so yeah, absolutely. It's really cool to see what they bring with them, and like you said, create a two-way street when it comes to this mentorship. And we've done this a lot with not only just incoming, you know, we hire somebody new that's fresh out of college, but also with our interns too. And that's always kind of been a really big thing for us. We've had a really awesome... and we've really dedicated a lot of time, resources, and energy into our internship program. And I think that's been a really key opportunity on this two-way street that we're trying to learn from, if you want to talk a little bit about kind of what we've done, what we've created, and how it encourages mentorship.
(Adam): Yeah, definitely. So the intern development program that we have has really become a lot more robust over the last few years is good. We've tried to put more structure to it while still allowing it to kind of shift and support the different kinds of interns that we have coming in, because we do still have a wide variety of people with a wide variety of skill sets and it takes a wide variety of skill sets in order to be to in order to succeed in architecture today right and so there's no one solution to a lot of these problems and so trying to figure out kind of a framework that gets exposure to a lot of these people right whether they, they come into the internship or they come into the intern development program with years of you know construction knowledge, or maybe they've been doing drafting and understand how to put a set of construction drawings together already.
But maybe have never actually seen some of that, you know, actual details in the field. How do they, how do some of these things actually get built? How do some of these things go together when you have to swing a hammer, and you know, do that out there when it's 95 degrees?
(Skyler): Oh boy!
(Adam): Or when it's 10 degrees right and thinking about how they build those things, how they put all that stuff together.
What impact does it have as far as the longevity of the product longevity of the building itself, how we're keeping water and, you know, moisture out of the building at the core, and making sure that it functions from an energy standpoint. All those things, you know, you have to kind of put together into a total package, and so whether you have experience in any one of those kinds of silos that we work in.
We try to give you a wide range of the breadth of work that we do right, and everything from some of the early schematic design stuff that we work on, where it's really conceptual, just some of the more specific, how do we build these things, how does it come together.
How do we really put this architecture together and then and then pass that how did those things function long term for our clients right are some of the ideas and concepts that we're putting together behind some of the buildings really working the way that we think they they should work right to when you design something with a different mindset whether that's healthcare or education or whatever are those ideas really bringing true and really you know, impacting the people that use the buildings in the way that we think they are.
(Skyler): Absolutely.
(Adam): And so trying to give that that broad broad range of topics and ideas, and exposures to interns. You know, I think they start to realize that architecture is way more than one thing, that we're very much generalists and a lot of different topics. And we try to give that wide exposure to interns or who are only with us, you know, over the summer or for a few short months but trying to get that wide breath of exposure to a lot of people that are new to see MBA even because we heard we hear this a lot of times when you work at larger companies or many other companies it's easy to kind of get pigeonholed into doing one specific thing.
(Skyler): Right.
(Adam): All we do is, you know, I'm responsible for the toilet details or I'm responsible for the, you know, I do the one thing and the schematic design, and that's it, and I've never actually seen a project come together.
(Skyler): Right.
(Adam): We hear that a lot, and we really do want the people who work at CMBA to run a project to feel like they're integrated into a project and to have a lot of buy-in with that, and we see that through being a part of the whole process and being integrated in it from some of the very first years. Some of the very first early conversations about turning over that building to understanding, did it really work the way we thought it was going to work? Did it build? And is it going to last the way that we thought it was going to last? Is it meeting the energy performance requirements that we projected all of those kinds of things? We want to try to get them as much exposure to that as possible.
(Skyler): Yeah, absolutely. So then let me ask you this. When it comes to getting them the exposure that they obviously need in order to kind of understand all the different steps and aspects of a process, obviously as a company, you know, we still are looking for work to get done and, you know, people to be beneficial parts of a project that they're on and obviously getting experiences a part of that, right? But what strategies do we use to get people involved in those different elements?
(Adam): Yeah, and I think it's as simple as just making sure that people are invited to the right meetings, that they're coming along to the right site visits, that they're seeing those things. I think exposure is a huge part of this. And exposure isn't cheap, necessarily, right? As you talked about, you know, we still have to make sure that the work's getting done, that we're doing things efficiently and effectively, because at the core, you know, this is still a business. We still want to make money. We still want to do those things and be profitable. But we found that it's so important to take the time to slow down and bring somebody that's maybe less experienced or hasn't seen this to that project, along to the meeting, along to the job site.
I mean, one, you get the time in the car to have a conversation about what we're going into? Where are we at? What should we talk about? But then you also get the time on site to see it really coming to life to say, Hey, I've been drawing this detail and I really don't understand how it works. But now, once I see it in the field, I actually get it right. I get why we do it this way, or I get why somebody has to screw this in from this side. And that makes more sense.
And now I can put that together in a way that goes that makes more sense to the contractors, that's more effective. That's holding up the higher standard that we're after all those things. But then you also get that time in the car to kind of decompress and say, What did you see? Right? What did you learn? So you kind of get a good early prep, you get to see some things in real life, and you get to get the conclusion or kind of get the wrap-up piece of this. That kind of goes, okay, what did you see? What did you learn? What do you have questions about that you were afraid to ask in the meeting? Right? And we really want to encourage those kinds of things that happen.
And some of the best internships and some of the best early conversations I've had with young professionals are following up those meetings and and them going, Well, I didn't understand why they did it that way. And let's talk about that. And maybe I don't even understand why they did it that way. Right? And we can have a conversation and just go into like, you know, none of that made sense. But what questions do we need to ask next time? How do we get to the bottom of this? And so many other problems that we try to solve just don't have any one answer. And so we have to talk about it. We have to collaborate. We have to work together and take the time to bring those people along and bring them into the conversation.
In my experience, it just makes the project better, makes you think about it more holistically, sometimes makes you make complex ideas, simplify them down and and really boil to what is the core of what I'm trying to say, right? Let's not overcomplicate something that doesn't need to be complicated. And having somebody in there who has less experience, you know, for them to raise their hand and go, I don't understand what we're doing. Why are we doing it this way?
(Skyler): Right, right.
(Adam): We all kind of go, you know, why are we doing it that way?
(Skyler): Right.
(Adam): It's a good time to question the status and say, "Should we really be doing it the way that we have always done it? Is this really the right way?" And sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't. We want to be open to those ideas for sure.
(Skyler): And it comes back to that two-way street, you know, we're seeing it from two different angles, and we're asking ourselves those questions, which helps to bring new ideas to the forefront.
(Adam): Exactly. And you know, we want to guide those young professionals in a way that they're still successful, right?
(Skyler): Of course.
(Adam): Sometimes you go into those tangents, and you can spiral off in different directions. And it's okay to guide them back down the path that's going to lead to the best possible outcome. And so I think it's really guiding them. It's okay to ask those questions. It's okay to think about these things differently. But how do we then, as mentors and as advisors then sort of gently ask the right questions to put them on the right track so that they can still succeed, kind of in a holistic approach?
(Skyelr): Yeah. Absolutely. That's pretty cool. I mean, and obviously, you know, you talked about sort of almost a three-step process, right? You know, we have them have direct contact with a mentor, right? And then they and the mentor go, and then they get mentorship through some experience. And then afterwards, there's that review with that same mentor since they both kind of experienced the same thing. I think that's a, I think that's a solid sort of algorithm in a sense.
(Adam): It is.
(Skyler): And of course, again, we've been talking about it. It's a two-way street, right? We're both learning. And so you talked about how there's that opportunity for both people afterwards, discussing, and the possibility that they ask a question that makes the mentor quote unquote here, and then they think to themselves, why do we do that, right? And then there's an opportunity for them both to explore and both to learn because that's what we're going for here.
(Adam): Exactly.
(Skyler): We talked about this as well, opportunities that CNBA specifically has kind of put into place to help develop that education side of things. Obviously, we want people to understand how we do things. I think that's a key element to sort of mentorship. Obviously, they come out of college, from what I've been told, when it comes to a lot of architecture and design schools. A lot of things are very theoretical, and more just trying to get you on the path of how design works, right? What does that look like? What's the process? But they don't get to see it in action, which is where we come in. This is where their internships come in. How have we at CMBA kind of set up resources for people to learn who are just coming in, whether they are an intern or a new employee?
(Adam): Yeah. I think that starts with their mentorship, right? It starts with defining a few people that they can go to and ask some of those really easy, really what might be dumb questions, right? And don't feel afraid to come in and ask some of those early dumb questions because we're all probably thinking about some of those same things, right?
(Skyler): Exactly!
(Adam): So I think it starts with that. But definitely one of the things that we've tried to put into place at the core of CMBA is what we call a CMBA University, or just CMBAU. And it's really a nine-session. There are nine topics. It's really a five-week session for each of those nine topics. And really, we talk about everything from how the business of architecture works to communication, to codes and standards, to construction administration, Revit, and rendering, which is the one that I specifically work on. But yeah, we try to get kind of a wide variety of nine different topics.
Each one of our senior leadership or our partners takes one of those topics and does a kind of five-week mini session on how CMBA does that. How do we do that as a company? What are some things and some of the decisions that we've made as a company to position ourselves in the market? How do we use specific tools? You know, really, what is core to architecture and CMBA specific, right? And trying to bring newer staff, whether that's new hires or interns or anybody like that, up to speed as far as what are some of those expectations at CMBA?
Some of those guide rails that I talked about while still kind of leading the door open for them to ask questions, to design within some of those parameters, to lead to a successful project, but gives them a good sense of how they fit into the bigger puzzle or the bigger structure of how this organization really works, right? Why do we do some of the things we do? Why is it important for us to make sure that contracts are signed before we do any design work, right? At some level, well, it's, you know, multiple reasons. It's so that we, you know, don't get sued. It's so that we make, you know, make sure that we get paid or whatever that is, right?
And so some of those things, you go, well, do I really have to do that? Do I really need to make sure that the contract's done? It's such a pain in the butt. You know, I really don't want to do that. But then you go, OK, but now I really know why it's important.
(Skyler): Exactly.
(Adam): CMBAU, I think, does a great job of explaining those things in a way more broad, way more generalized idea so that you can say, hey, yeah, now I understand why I have to process these change orders, or I have to sit down and answer my emails, you know, why my taxes are the way they are because of the way that the organization is set up. All those things that maybe you don't necessarily know about or ask about, and can work for an organization for a long time without necessarily having to know, but it's good to know those things just because, you know, you understand your position a lot more and how it fits into the grander scheme of things.
(Skyler): Absolutely. It's showcasing the what and then answering the why.
(Adam): Right, exactly.
(Skyler): Yeah, it's definitely one of those frustrating things. I'm seeing it as a dad, even, you know, if you don't explain why, then they get annoyed, and then they just don't want to do it. But if you show them what they need to be doing and explain why, then they're like, oh, that switch clicks in their mind, and they're like, I see why we do this.
(Adam): Exactly.
(Skyler): So yes, that makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense from a mentor perspective that we don't want to just tell them, do this, do this, do this. We want to explain the why so that they know why they should be doing it this way.
(Adam): Right.
(Skyler): And that's not to say that we don't accept, obviously, like feedback and, you know, constructive criticism. How can we change this? Maybe there is something that needs to be updated along the way, or changed, or adjusted.
(Adam): Yeah, but oftentimes so many people aren't exposed to some of those things, right? They aren't exposed to the ins and the outs of a contract, or the, you know, maybe they're doing like yourself, doing some more of the digital content management stuff. It doesn't understand the ins and outs of construction or why we use Revit and some of those software items.
(Skyler): I was just about to use that as an example.
(Adam): Yeah, exactly.
(Skyler): I'm the perfect example of like, I don't know what the heck some of you guys do all day. So yes, it's great to get that inside look so that you can explain it to me. And then when I go about my day and I'm trying to get a project done and something comes up and I need to figure out how, let's say, let's say with a project, right? Well, when am I going to get my project photos or, you know, whatever the case.
(Adam): Why is it taking so long for this to close out?
(Skyler): Exactly.
(Adam): Once you realize all those steps that go into closing out projects successfully and some of the follow-up, and why it takes, you know, this many people to button up something like this project. You go, oh, okay, now I really understand, right? There are 80 people working, and a guy running around with a paint bucket trying to finish this thing. And, you know, it's coming down to the wire, and now you go, okay, now I get why this is a big deal.
(Skyler): When is the landscaping getting done, because I have to go get pictures?
(Adam): Exactly. Yeah.
(Skyler): And so at the very least, I can have a little bit more sympathy and be a little bit more reasonable with my request, or also even just knowing who I should be going to, right? Like, you know, I could contact the entire team, and then they all have to see this email and respond to me and whatever else. Or I know who it is that's either in charge of this project or in charge of the specific element of this project. That's who I should be going to.
(Adam): Exactly.
(Skyler): Yeah, it definitely offers a lot of opportunities within education for everybody.
(Adam): Yeah.
(Skyler): Fantastic. So with that being said, do you have any specific examples? I know when we talked to the interns, even just this year, because we just wrapped up our intern program in the summer. And I know, like Jacqueline, had specifically mentioned mentorship was a big thing for her, and that was really cool. So do you have any examples of kind of what that's looked like within our internship program or otherwise? Either side of that street that we had talked about, right? Learning from or Jacqueline learning from us or us learning from her, whatever the case.
(Adam): Yeah, no, I think there's a lot of good examples of this, trying to narrow it into kind of, you know, a smaller topic. But it is, it's so wide, some of the knowledge that we have. And I think some of the greatest opportunities are those car rides that I talked about earlier, right? Where it's, "Hey, we're going to drive out to Grettinger and we're going to go see the project under construction."
And as we're driving out there, we're going to have a conversation about, you know, "Hey, what kind of project is this? How's it being built? What phase are we at? What are some of the questions that the owner is probably going to ask?"
And quite honestly, you know, so often as an intern, you come in and you have a generally good idea of maybe how to put some things together or how to use Revit or some of the construction understanding. But so many of our clients are kind of in that same boat where, you know, their professions are their school administrator or they're a hospital administrator, or maybe they own a business, or maybe they're a lead pastor at a church. None of them does construction full-time. And so making sure that they understand where the process is is very much like talking to some of those interns, right?
They kind of have a similar level of like, we kind of know what's going on, but slow this down, explain this to us. And I think as a more senior architect, I think it's good practice to do that, right? We get caught up, and we kind of go through those things really quickly sometimes because it's like, oh, well, yeah, you know, you just do it the way we've always done it. It's no big deal for me.
But I think when we really slow down and we say, hey, explain this to an intern, explain this to an owner, it's a lot of the same things and really go through how that really works, what the next steps are, what's one of the pieces that are happening currently, and then making sure that you leave time to open it up for them to ask questions, right? What did you see here? What are you looking at that isn't quite making sense? Or do you know what this piece of the wall is, right? And trying to understand what questions were there and their understanding, filling in those gaps that they might not quite understand. Well, why did you do it this way?
Like I said, we were driving out to Granger. That was my one specific example. We actually took Levi Jansma and Jackie were in our office this summer in Spencer. And they both drove out with us to the construction site and got to see the new weight room for the Grettinger-Terell building coming up and coming together. And that's a SIPs building or a structurally insulated panel building that is actually manufactured there in Grettinger. There's a company in Grettinger that makes them. And so we got a really good deal on this project and a good deal on the construction of this because it's really just one side of the town to the other. And you know, it's a construction type that not everybody is accustomed to, right?
A lot of people understand at least at some level, you know, masonry or wood framing, but a SIPs is an insulation panel with two wood panels glued to the outside of it, right? And so it's a really efficient system, but it's a construction type that not everybody has a lot of exposure to. So then to see that in real life, to see it being erected and how all the framing kind of goes together, and some of the uniquenesses that go along with designing and construction and detailing out that SIPs building was really cool. And it's something that they didn't necessarily have that exposure to. And so I mean, there's a good chance that they never would have even seen that in school.
(Skyler): Yeah, exactly.
(Adam): Everything's designed in specific ways, and they just stick with the two that you had mentioned before.
(Skyler): Yes. And it's a great opportunity to see something completely out there that they never would have been exposed to.
(Skyler): Exactly.
(Adam): Exactly, and I think that's part of it. As architects, we never stop doing that. There's a lot of stuff that I don't know even out there, but you always build that culture and that mindset of like, keep asking questions, keep exploring what you don't know about this project. And when you have to explain it to somebody else, it makes you sit down and go, well, what do I really even know about this, right? Could I explain this to somebody, or are there gaps that I don't even understand?
(Skyler): Yeah, absolutely.
(Adam): And that's, I think, really cool to kind of see happen. And I think that's really beneficial for the whole team. And it makes you describe them better to the owners and the other people that we work with, all those things.
(Skyler): That's a really cool angle to it, too. We've talked about it a couple of times on the show about the idea of the jargon that we use.
(Adam): Right.
(Skyler): And as architects and the idea that we have to translate that over to the clients or to the people that we work with, the partners and stuff. And yeah, that's a good point.
(Adam): Interns and young professionals are kind of the same way. They don't have that jargon yet.
(Skyler): I love that.
(Adam): I mean, I still kind of want to teach them some of that jargon, right? Because, as in the industry, we're going to talk about them quite a lot.
(Skyler): Yes.
(Adam): But coming into it, they have no idea, just like those clients, right? Just like those clients who go, wait, what is this? What is an EPDM rough? And what is a SIPs panel? And what are all these little acronyms that I really just don't even understand?
(Skyler): Absolutely.
(Adam): And interns are very much in the same way. So if you take time and go through that with them, it's great practice for what you do on a daily basis.
(Skyler): It's literally perfect.
(Adam): Absolutely.
(Skyler): And that's another two-way street, right? Like I'm practicing in two ways.
(Adam): Exactly right! You're getting better as a more senior professional. You're teaching them the importance of understanding at the core. So that they can explain it to somebody else and take your spot eventually, hopefully.
(Skyler): Absolutely.
(Adam): Right? So, yeah, definitely.
(Skyler): Awesome. And we talk about that obviously a lot within the office, right? The marketing team, you know, we don't know all your guys' jargon. So we're another one of those groups of people that need to have some things explained to us sometimes. But yeah, absolutely. That's so cool. That is really cool how it comes full circle like that. Awesome. Is there anything else that I haven't touched on, Adam, that you wanted to talk about when it comes to the mentorship stuff?
(Adam): I mean, I think we talked about a lot of it. I think at the core, so much of it and so much of what I talked to young professionals about is just make sure to ask questions, right? Don't be afraid to ask a dumb question. Clients don't know these things. Like we just said, interns don't know these things. Probably somebody who should know this still doesn't know this.
(Skyler): Sure.
(Adam): So it's okay to ask the simple, stupid, well, it seems like a stupid question, right?
(Skyler): Right.
(Adam): To go, "Hey, what is a SIP still? What does it really even mean?" Right? Let's get into that. And some people will gloss over and pretend like they want to know what it is. But in architecture, we really have to sit down and go, but what does that mean? Slow it down for me. Dumb it down for me. And that's okay. And that happens at every level.
(Skyler): Absolutely. I mean, if the client's not asking us those questions when they come up, they're going to end up with a project that might not be everything that they were hoping it would be because they didn't ask questions and make comments and pitches and things like that. Same thing with an internship. If you come to us and you don't ask any questions and you just kind of roll with the punches, first of all, we're probably going to catch on to that pretty quickly because we'll be like, this isn't at all what I asked for. Do you need some help here? But also, like, you want to make the most out of this is a learning experience.
(Adam): Exactly.
(Skyler): I love that.
(Adam): Exactly.
(Skyler): That's awesome.
(Adam): Those are the ones that we see benefit the most, whether it's those that grow the fastest in the company as young professionals or those that get the most out of an internship, are the ones that aren't afraid to ask those questions.
(Skyler): Absolutely. It's so pinnacle to the whole process for sure. Awesome. Adam, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me about mentorship. It's such an important thing across the board. Again, everybody needs a mentor, somebody who can help them along. And this goes for a lot of different facets of life. It doesn't just go for your job. It can go for your hobbies. It can go for you. You can have mentors from a religious standpoint. You can have mentors from a personal growth standpoint. So knowing how mentorship could work and a good pathway like you had mentioned before, sort of that three-step process that we had talked about. Having those kinds of ideas is what drives mentorship to success.
(Adam): Exactly.
(Skyler): Awesome. Well, thanks again, Adam. I really appreciate it. And for those of you listening, we will see you guys next time on another episode of Laying the Foundation.
(Skyler): To find out more about the Laying the Foundation podcast, you can head over to any podcast streaming platform, such as Spotify, iTunes, Google Podcasts, and others. You can also find out more about CMBA Architects through social media such as Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. Additionally, you can head over to the CMBA website at cmbaarchitects.com. If you're an architecture or design professional or an intern looking for an internship within those fields, please be sure to check out our website and click on the careers tab to find out more about what opportunities we offer. This has been another episode of the Laying the Foundation podcast. We'll see you next time.