Join us as we dive into the world of master planning! In this episode, we explore the similarities and differences between the master planning process in healthcare and education projects. Don't miss this insightful discussion on creating effective project plans.
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Episode Transcript
Skyler: Welcome to another episode of Laying the Foundation. Welcome everybody to another episode of Laying the Foundation. I'm Skyler, the more or less for the show, and today I'm sitting here with two of our phenomenal staff from the Su City office where I work. I have Courtney
Courtney: Hi, thanks for having me.
Skyler: Yeah, thanks for being on the show. And then on my left I've got
Terry: hello thanks, Skyler.
Skyler: Yeah Now, Courtney, you've been on an episode once before, way back when, before even I was here.
Courtney: I have. Yes, we started, I think, kick off the podcast session and talked about education.
Skyler: Yeah, awesome, awesome. And then, Terry, this is your first time. This is my first time, so That'll be exciting.
Terry: Yes, and actually I'm a big fan of podcasts and of our podcast in particular. Good. I recommend anybody that hasn't listened to all of our episodes to do so. I think they're awesome. You've done a great job so far.
Skyler: Good, good, Well, I'm glad you think so. Yeah, so today I've got both of you here to talk about master planning, what that looks like, how it differs between the healthcare sorry, the healthcare side and the higher ed side, and what all that just what the process looks like. So I guess, for starters, I have not ever made a master plan, so I don't even know what that means. What exactly is a master plan?
Terry: Well, for the, I think the healthcare and the education. There's some similarities in both as far as the healthcare or as far as the master plans go. But on the healthcare side, well, the similarities. We have three steps the discovery phase, discover and then inspire and then create on the K- side or implement on the healthcare side. But really those three steps lead us through, with the owner, the process of kind of planning out their future, which is the exciting part.
I mean this is awesome stuff. This is some of the most fun things that I get to do because we're planning for their future. So we start out in that discover phase. We're trying to find out everything we can about the facility about how they operate the services they provide, what their staffing needs are. Do they try to run their lab with one person overnight, things like that that type of information we're finding out. We have consultants involved in our healthcare master plans because we need to find out their infrastructure needs. Sure, Do they have an air handler that's years old, that's dying? Do they need to upgrade their imaging equipment? Questions like that.
So we're trying to find out all that information during that discover phase and even what their hopes and dreams are. That's really what we're trying to expand their vision and see what they're thinking. And then, after we have that information, we start taking that information and creating plans and images and thoughts of what's possible for them. How can we make those things a reality that we talked about in the discover phase? And then we follow it up with the implement phase, where we wrap it all up and we put cost estimates to things. We try to do schedule phasing so that they can have a thought of how long it might take and how that might match up with the funds they have available, and then we put it all together for them in a package at the end so they can decide how they want to move forward.
And is that the master plan, then that is the master plan process for us on the healthcare side. So, Courtney, I see you nodding your head, so I assume there's a lot of similarities.
Courtney: There are. There are a lot of similarities in the education side as well, whether it's K- planning or higher ed planning. But what all comes together is how we plan for the long-term growth of facilities so that they can align with educational strategic goals and their academic plan moving forward. Because we know there's changes to buildings that have to happen. But how can we be proactive and ahead of the game so that we know what's coming? Like Teri said, you master plan so that over the next years you can make those updates and those changes. But you have a plan going forward and our master planning process sees that all the way through, because it does come back to each owner and what is desirable to everybody is not the same across the board. So in healthcare and in education you need to find what is going to be specific to that client, that district, and how that can impact them in the long-term goal.
Like Teri said, in some of that discover phase in education side, we're looking at conditions, capacity and curriculum. The way those break down is how are the conditions of their facility? What can we do to enhance what's there? In the capacity side, we know some districts are growing by leaps and bounds, others are declining in enrollment in rural areas. So how can we adjust buildings to meet the needs of those capacity changes? And then curriculum we're not telling teachers how to teach, but we need to know how their spaces can support what they want to do, whether that's shifting to hands-on or exploratory learning. More than so, then, direct learning has been in the past. But all of that goes together in that first step of our master planning process to make sure that we're reacting to what's there and also bridging to the future of what can happen, all right.
Skyler: I think both of you had mentioned the people that are involved in this. Teri, you used the term they. Courtney, you mentioned owners, clients, who all gets talked to when it comes to that initial steps of the master planning to develop that plan to really, I don't know you're talking to the people that use the spaces, I assume so who all gets involved in those processes?
Terry: For us on the healthcare side, it's going to be the CEO, it's going to be the director of nursing, it's going to be the director of facilities, and then we actually send out questionnaires to each of the departments and so we get the information from them directly, from the department, from the staff. What are they looking for, what do they need, what are they making? How are they making? Do we get all those information from all the stakeholders? Really and it falls into that, what we say here at CMBA, it's not what we do, it's who we do it for. So it's the staff that we're talking to, it's the people that are in the facility. But we also try to get a gauge for the patients and the visitors, and at some point during that discover phase, we like to be able to talk to at least the patient advocates to get that side of things also, and in the end, they're the ones that are using this base. That you know, yeah they're really really impacting their lives.
So that's yeah, it's all the stakeholders that we're impacting. Yes, it's who we're trying to talk with okay, and that's the same in education.
Courtney: You know the users, who's using those buildings all the time. Yeah, it comes down to the students and the faculty and the staff using those buildings and unless we make spaces that they can use, we're not doing a service to that master plan. And, above all, it comes back to to that community schools are kind of the heartbeat of communities and being able to have a place that feels community led, community driven.
Just like Courtney said, we reach out and do surveys and focus groups and different activities, and I said this in the first podcast I did. It does come down to those users because Everything is unique to that district because of what we heard from those users in those spaces Exactly and those are gonna be different, no matter what.
Skyler: There's gonna be, you know, different communities all across the world. There are different communities, and so there's gonna be different needs that come from that, and then there's, like you said, there's gonna be different patients. There's gonna be different needs for the facilities, based on whatever medical treatments are being offered there or whatever the case.
Terry: So obviously, yeah, everything's gonna be different and, honestly, the the community is with the rural health care that we Do a lot of our work in. It's really the same thing, because community hospitals are that part of that same heartbeat as this as the school, so it's really, I mean, they they're almost hand-in-hand really. I mean there's some of the largest employers of the community, usually Education and health care, so they're they're really, really similar in that sense.
Skyler: Yeah, which is kind of cool. Yeah, I've got. I've got the two people. I know this is awesome designing all the spaces for, like the primary heart beats of the of any community.
Terry: So I was excited when I knew I was gonna be on with Courtney. It's always fun, yeah, yeah awesome, all right.
Skyler: So you've gathered all this data, you've talked to the staff. I'm sure a lot of detail comes out of being able to hand or talk to the staff and the people using those Facilities, because you know they've got little things, even just the smallest things that could be really specific, that they would love to have in their facility. I know I've talked to some people that have Discussed, you know, designing some like health care facilities and how like, oh, maybe this plug-in just being like a couple inches, you know, up off the ground or whatever the case. But you've gathered all this data, you got it, all this information. You're starting to put it together. What does that process look like? How do you kind of Translate that information into the plans?
Courtney: Well, the education side, that's really where we start having fun. Oh we've loved interacting with everyone and getting all of the information, but how can we start solving for those? Unique situations and, like you said, if something moves or is tweaked one little way here or there, it makes the most impact in that plan and bring able to bring all of those ideas to find solutions
We know there's not a one-size-fits-all, we know there's not one solution for problems, but finding the way that those pieces click together to make the most impact for each client Is what gets us excited. On on the design side of it, and being able to make unique and special Places in those buildings that those users will remember, you always can go back to a place you've been and if it was something that you have a memory in, you'll always keep that with you and and being able to give those places and and specific things to users are Just an exciting part of the the day-to-day job awesome.
Terry: Well, that's the part of. The best part for me is to is when the owner comes to that aha moment as we're talking and we're describing to them Okay, tell us your, your ideal situation, your ideal facility, what would it look like? And they've spent their entire career constrained by budgets and you know regulations and this and that, and and they've gotten by working with what they have for so long that it takes a little bit for them to break out of that right right.
But during that inspire phase is when we really tell them you know, just tell us your vision, you know we yes, we're gonna have to deal with budget here, for sure, but Give us your ideal facility, yeah, and we can always scale it back. But but don't let's not leave something out there that we didn't explore just Because we were concerned so much about the budget that we just didn't think it was even possible. And when that, when that clicks for them.
Right they finally realize like, wow, I can really, I can really dream, I can really imagine, and maybe I won't get it all, I probably won't, but I can at least figure out what the ideal space would be. And that's, that's the fun part. When they, when it is, it's like a light bulb comes on and they say, wow, this is awesome. And so then we get to design some really cool things very awesome.
Skyler: So how do you break them out of that shell? Because I could imagine, like you said, working in those spaces for so long and being confined to Paperwork and the budgets and all this other stuff and people telling you know, how do you get them to like Stop thinking that way and start thinking what, what can I imagine you know?
Terry: on some of it on the fur. On the healthcare side we're doing a lot of I assume
Courtney probably is too designing stuff on the screen with them and you're moving things around and and you try to get their input in real time. Oh, okay and while you're meeting with them and move some things around and, again, just challenge them with questions and just get them talking, keep them talking and keep them Thinking and imagining and eventually they just, it just clicks like I say the wall.
Yep, they break through and they finally realize, okay, and even if it's not until the next meeting, maybe they go back and they think a little bit about what they talked about, yeah, in that meeting and they thought you know Really if we could, if we could double this or if we got one of these new analyzers for the lab.
Mm-hmm or if we could do, if we could have two staff people cover this area During this amount of time. You know they just start coming up that use themselves and then that's what makes it their own. It's. You know we have, we have the knowledge to help guide them right and best practices, but ultimately it's got to be there, their space, their space. So absolutely, absolutely.
Skyler: Very cool. That makes a lot of sense, like if they come back to the next meeting. They've gone back to their facility, they've walked around, they've done their job and then they're thinking as they're doing that you know it'd be kind of nice or this could be better. Or you know, talking to somebody else in the break room or something, and then they make a complaint. You're like we could fix that if we did it this way. So, yeah, that makes a lot more sense of like yeah, how do you get them out of the shell?
Courtney: And on the education side we always say seeing is believing.
So we conduct a lot of tours, we take our clients to go see buildings that have been done Buildings we've done, buildings our colleagues have done so that they can see how spaces are actually being used. Because in education if you're refined to the building you're in, you know how you teach and teaching is repetitive. You get used to curriculum and what you're doing, but until you can see how a space can influence how you're able to teach, you may not realize it either. So if we go and tour facilities see how they're using spaces, a lot of things now has changed the way teaching has changed, the way students are kind of leading their own curriculum and their own way of studying. And being able to see how those spaces are set up that can change with what you're in right now really sets that new goal.
Maybe that if you know how other people are doing it, you may be willing to take the risk, because you've seen how they've been able to interact in spaces and even hearing from them. We've done a couple of tours with a few groups lately and seeing a space that they never would have imagined and hearing from the teachers of how it's actually working for them has completely changed their mind with what they want to do for their space. Now I know in a lot of spaces we have to go down the path of talking flexibility, adaptability, maximizing efficiencies. Like Terry said, there's usually not money to go around for everything, but how can we make spaces serve dual purposes or how can we get students using corridors and hallways differently so that the entire building can be used? But until they can see how that's impacting their space or how maybe new space could be used, it's really hard to get them there.
So, we love being able to see. We can lead by example and see those spaces.
Terry: And we've done that too. On the healthcare side, we've encouraged if there's a space that we know of that's been done recently or that they may know of they've actually brought up, you know, I think so, and so down in Des Moines did a space like this, let's go take a look. So yeah, that's definitely a great way to get those ideas flowing.
Skyler: Yeah, awesome.
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Skyler: To learn more about our available positions, visit the careers page at cmbaarchitectscom and apply to join the CMBA team. And there's a lot of like psychology that can go into these these spaces too, which is interesting to see.
Like you guys, I know a lot of the other architects that they've talked about like getting here and stuff to like the position and their licensing and everything, and it's a lot of art like, it's a lot of artistic capability. But the thing that nobody's really mentioned too much and I see it or I hear it when I talk to you guys is that there has to be a lot of like psychology that goes into this. Because you know we're designing spaces with a lot of natural light to like because that helps with like kind of the mental feel of the place or whatever the case. Like there's got to be a lot of that right.
Courtney: Yes, absolutely. There is a ton of research and that goes into all of our design. Because when we think of spaces, most people, when they walk into a space, knows how it makes them feel. Right, do you feel good in the space or don't you? Was there something about it? Well, all based on you know the the chemicals that are released in our brain is how we're perceiving those spaces. So if something affects you and you feel good in the space, you know that it was something that was set up in that space that gave you that reaction Exactly.
So all of those things go into our planning. When we look at how spaces feel and and the emotion you get when you are in those spaces, I know, like you just said, a lot of natural light. You know good ventilation, temperature control all of those things are working behind the scenes, but you only know how that space feels when you're in it. But you know those are right if you have that good feeling with that space, so that all kind of impacts how we design and what we're looking for when we're going through spaces. Very cool.
Terry: And the and again. That's a huge part of the the healthcare master plan as well. Obviously, patients are there to heal.
Terry: And and healing. You can't heal when you're getting interrupted. Your sleep is getting interrupted times a night by alarms or staff coming in or just everything that's going on around you. We try to make them comforting, quiet places to heal, and that's really. That's really what our goal is. It's not, it's not always easy to do, there's a lot of things that happen in healthcare facility but but we really try to make it all work together. Again, the natural light. There's a lot of talk about biophilic design, you know, bringing the nature in just so many ways that we can help people heal, and with their own body you know, not necessarily just the medications, but just how the space makes them feel.
just like Courtney said, it's how the space makes you feel and that's and you're exactly right, schiller that's, that's the part that we really focus on, that maybe we don't talk about as much.
Skyler: Yeah, and I think that's yeah. It's definitely really important to delve into that psychology of the space and design it in such a way that's going to promote that, based on the research which was a big part of the data part at the beginning. So, moving forward as you guys are doing, the design technology it's always changing, it's always evolving and things along those lines. How do we design spaces that you know we might know that the technology that's going to go into it initially might be, you know, out of date or out of use years from now, but we still want to use the space. We don't necessarily want to like restarting from scratch or whatever the case, like how, what's the process looks like from that end.
Terry: Well, the yeah, the in. When we talk master plans to owners, we basically again we were asking them to really plan out five years. Look ahead five years almost, because On a larger project you may be designing this, you may be doing the master plan process and then the design process and then the construction process. You may not even actually be in this space for three years.
Skyler: That's true, which we've seen years from the time you're talking.
Terry: So yeah, that's exactly right. The technology, we know the technology is gonna gonna advance in that time and Wireless has helped. You know that helps integrate some things a little more seamlessly as technology updates, nurse call systems, nurse communication systems, the imaging equipment all of that changes. We've had projects where we're planning for a certain model of imaging equipment and by the time we get to the project They've already decided to purchase the next oh version of it. Fortunately, for MRIs and CT scanners, you can. You can change that equipment out and not necessarily have to change the room so much, but but it is, it hits, it's ever-evolving. And even the Hybrid operating room that we just finished, we worked on for six years while they were trying to to raise the funds for that specific room.
Skyler: Yeah and so there were a lot of changes that happened in that.
Terry: Yeah, exactly, I was really fortunate to get to see it at the end.
Skyler: Yeah, I'm sure all along the way it was an exhausting, stressful process.
You got to see the good part, yeah the finally finished and I'm sure there's, like a lot of you know, almost relief once it does finally get done from your end.
Terry: Yeah, we did it.
Skyler: We finally got here.
Yeah and then Courtney for higher ed. Obviously, technology is also changing there, but as we saw recently, you know, with post COVID, the teaching environment is always changing as well. And like how they teach and how they use those spaces, you know how much is the space, all of that space, being used anymore versus? You know now when students can do things remotely and teachers can do things remotely? I mean, how do we kind of it's hard to say without a crystal ball, like what's going to happen, but how do we kind of design based on the, the knowledge that things are going to change?
Courtney: Yeah, having a crystal ball would be fantastic.
Yes, because in a lot of those scenarios, if we could plan for what was going to happen, that would have been amazing.
Yes, in higher ed side, actually specifically looking at spaces and how we can create those environments that allow Lectures to happen, whether it's in the room or from remote locations, has been huge.
Creating those high flex spaces Is what we're calling them of of being integrated enough to have the users outside of the classroom feel integrated in the classroom, but yet having those users in the room still be able to have access to what they need as well, integrating the, the visual and the acoustic and all of the capability so that they interact seamlessly, so that it doesn't matter where you're at that you still are a part of that conversation. I know even at work we try to patch seamlessly between our different offices as everyone collaborates, and how to give the the most Impact in that environment is being able to be connected visually and acoustically so that you don't feel like you are left out. In a lot of those situations too, we need to be Adaptable so that if something does change or shift again, like we saw a few years ago, we need to be able to make those changes happen seamlessly, so that we're not losing downtime.
Terry: Right and.
Courtney: I'm sure similarly in health care, so that we can be in that seamless transition and not have a lot of lost time. We need to work to make sure that that's Easily transferable.
Terry: Absolutely, absolutely, and our and our engineering consultants Help us a lot with that also. As far as the technology goes, that's a specialty of theirs. But we have to have that knowledge as well to be able to communicate Effectively with the owner, as we're doing the master plan process.
Skyler: How do you, how do you balance because we kind of talked about, like I said, the psychology of the spaces and the actual, like the design of it Right, how do we balance the usability and the like sort of aesthetics of a space and make sure that it's usable for the way that you need it but it also looks nice like? How is that kind of? What's the process for that?
Terry: One of the things we do on the on the health care side. A lot of times we'll do mock-ups. Sometimes they'll call it a p process and and that really helps us. This is getting maybe a little further in. We don't normally do this as much during the master, can't?
Master plan process, but we have. But we will actually mock up physically spaces, Specific spaces, like maybe one we just did recently was a lab, so that people can actually walk around in a space that's actual size with cardboard cutouts of tables and equipment and see how many steps it takes to get from here to there sure and the heights of those outlets are things like that, so they can actually try it out ahead of time to kind of see how that, see how that works.
And then, once we kind of get the feel that that this is what they want, this is how they want it to work, then our team, interior designers included, can really work, using all those things. With that. We talked about how the space is going to feel. Mm-hmm to really come to really make that the space that will work for them but will feel awesome to them in the end too, or the patient or visitors, or the staff. You know we're working for all of those people.
Skyler: Absolutely.
Courtney: I think you definitely know when technology has been integrated aesthetically into the spaces. In a lot of our schools that we're working with now, we're one-to-one, or the classroom is one-to-one, where each student has a laptop or a Chromebook or something to be able to use every day. But then where do you aesthetically charge all of those and store all of those? Ah, yes.
So that's one of those integrations where, if it's done right, it's part of your day-to-day and it's not something that stands out in the middle of the room as a technology charging cart. But how can we incorporate that into the casework and the design of the space so that it's seamless in what's there and the students know what the procedures are for getting ready for the day, but it doesn't impact negatively the aesthetic of the space, right? So that's one of the things that's been incorporated and a part of the space that you just understand, okay.
Terry: Well, what I've seen you guys do I think even more effectively on the K side are D renderings that we do.
Courtney: We have. We do a lot of that, and it's interesting to see how time has changed from the time I started my career to where we are now, that those D renderings look realistic like you're in the space before, ground has even broken.
Skyler: Yes.
Courtney: And the space is going to look like. It's not a surprise. When you get into it, right, it transitions straight from paper to the teacher in their room, knowing exactly how it was going to look because we planned so early on what those spaces would be like. And they know exactly where things are in the room because it has been ingrained in them from the beginning, when they saw renderings years before the project was even built. Sure, so it has come a long way of being able to integrate all of that and see it before it's even built. Awesome, yeah.
Terry: Well then, the great way to do it is to have that QR code that you scan. I mean, our interior designers can put these images together walkthroughs and all you have to do is, if you have a smartphone, scan the QR code and you are in the room, You're looking on your phone and, as you move around physically in your own space, you can look around this room that you're in. That's incredible In three dimensions. That's a really effective tool that we've used to really help people understand their spaces before they move in.
Skyler: Yeah, absolutely. It's kind of mind-blowing what we're able to put ourselves into the space, as you said, Courtney, before the ground has even been broken, before they've discussed. Here's a mock-up that we've done in the D space or whatever the case, and being able to see it from that perspective is pretty incredible First person. So how this is kind of more from a personal standpoint how do you guys prepare for that meeting where you're going to present the master plan? Do you guys have like a process that you personally do before you walk into that boardroom? What does that look like?
Terry: Well there's. Yeah, are you talking at the end of the master plan?
Skyler: Yeah, yeah, you put it all together and you're going to go in there. And well, I guess that's true because along the way, you're probably making adjustments.
Terry: Yeah, there's presentations all along the way Sure sure. But yeah, ultimately we're presenting to, typically we're presenting to a board of directors at the end and the C-suite, we call it the CEO, cfo. Oh sure, sure, Director of Nursing that sort of thing. But really what it is is a compilation of the steps along the way.
That's why we have the three-step process and we're gathering this information along the way, we're documenting it so that really, when it comes time to talk to the board or any group a community group even, for that matter we've got that information. And on the healthcare side, a lot of times we'll have a construction manager involved actually during the master plan process. It just kind of depends on the project and the owner and they're actually providing real-time budgeting information, cost estimates and potential phasing.
Ideas along the way, so we kind of get that construction component of it also. So really, by the time we're done, we're giving them a package that kind of shows them what's possible, what its potential cost is and maybe how it can be phased in construction depending on their finances.
Skyler: The full breakdown. That's incredible.
Courtney: Yeah, and most of the time in the education side too, we have to also include all of those pieces because, as we know, in K- design most projects have to go to some bond support by the community. So being able to create that entire package of where the project goes for the next five years, ten years, and being able to show how that's going to develop and how important those tax dollars are in order to get those projects funded Because school districts have some sense of funding that they can spend on facilities and projects, but it really comes back to the community and what you're willing to support to be able to keep that school functioning and bringing it up to the next level so that those current students are able to get the advantages that come with years and differences in learning environments. So being able to create that entire package to go out to a community and to get their support and their backing on that is kind of that next step then, once that master planning process is completed, right.
Terry: And I see you guys on the education side. I think it's harder for you even to condense all that information into something that's easily understandable by everyone. Like you say, if you've got to pass a bond, this has got to be. You've got to be very clear and concise.
Courtney: That's exactly right, and a lot of people. If you don't even have students in the district, you may not know the state of the district or what it's in. So creating that story and being able to move forward with what was found during the master plan is going to be most important to get that message across.
Skyler: Wow, yeah, I can imagine like the just bringing everything in would be just a big, massive stack of papers and a long, who know slide presentation or what have you. So, yeah, I guess that is kind of tough to like narrow it all down, especially when you guys, as the experts, as the designers, you're like look at everything that we've created so far, look at all this stuff we want to show you. But being able to like condense it down to a reasonable presentation to kind of get the point across, for sure so awesome. So I guess my question is what does it look like once we hand it off? Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. I don't know if we've missed anything along the way.
Terry: I think that's the main. I mean, those are the main components of it.
Skyler: Okay, Okay. So when you hand that off, I mean it's not out of your hands per se, Like there's still you guys are still involved in the process, I assume.
Courtney: I'm always ready for the next step.
Skyler: Where do we go from here? Here's the vision.
Courtney: Here's how we can get there. But now, what are we going to bite off? What's the first step of that? So, in getting that bond ready to go, or being able to start with the first project and whatever funding is in place, it's exciting because now you're ready to start seeing things happening. The planning is laid, the foundation is there. How can we move forward into the next piece to make it a reality? Awesome?
Terry: Yeah, and we're not going after bond elections necessarily, but again, through the process we've talked to the owner and we've kind of phased things out, showed them what the phasing could be, and they've kind of decided, maybe along the way, what they can afford to do Without the master plan. A healthcare facility may be looking, they may be thinking you know, we need to do something about radiology, or you know, maybe we should improve our patient rooms, and that's kind of looking at little individual parts and pieces. But with the master plan again, same as in education, you're trying to look at things holistically and so, even though you may not be able to do everything at once, you want to plan it in such a way that this phase one doesn't get in the way of phase two or impede something that you're planning down the road. And so the owner really feels like, hey, I've got this plan, this is a roadmap now. And so for us we're right there Again, whether it's a bond in education or for us in healthcare, the construction manager has said, you know, hey, this phase will probably cost about this much.
And they think, okay, we can maybe go this route. And so then, yeah, it's exciting, we're like, we're ready to go. We've designed this whole thing out for the next five years and we understand that it probably will change by the time we get to year five and phase two. It may look a little different because things change, but it's exciting because the owner feels like they know where they're going, they know what they're going to do and they know how they're going to get there.
Skyler: They've got a plan, they've got the master plan and it does change. How often, would you say? I don't know if there's really a single answer. It's probably different per project. But you said things change along the way from handing off the master plan. Does it happen fairly often for the most part, or is it just little bits and pieces that are tweaked along the way?
Terry: I mean, the first phase is going to be probably what you've designed during the master plan process, but maybe by the time you get to phase two or phase three, technology has changed. Like you say, covid hits. There's all sorts of things that can cause things to change, and we explain that to the owners so that they know, they understand that this is here's our first step, and here's some others and they may change along the way, but at least you've got a map that you can follow Absolutely.
Courtney: In education we do see things shift, though occasionally. And just because that roadmap, that master plan, is there doesn't mean different phases can't happen at different times. We had a client who had a process laid out in the master plan that it was going to be some athletics, some fine arts and some career technical education projects. But the way it worked is community partners saw the value of having some of that career tech and they came along and wanted to support something. So that project became to number one. It was the forefront project because it found partnerships and funding to be able to push that one and propel that one ahead.
So really, when you look at this master plan, these roadmaps can zig and zag.
It gets you to the process of where you want to be, but it may mean something comes ahead of something else. Or because a program starts seeing a lot more enrollment numbers, that that has to grow and over the last few years we have seen that growth in career and technical education courses, those career pathways and what becomes prominent at the time we start seeing those go to the forefront and how we can shift to react to those. And each district is different even in their enrollment trends and what's on point for their area and being able to pull those triggers on those things that come first and are going to be more important need to be easily accessible. So that master plan also has to be rather nimble and flexible and where you can go, and, like Terry: said, you don't want to have one piece get in the way of something else or have to demolish something you just did in the last phase. So being able to have that planned out too, so that it doesn't interact with a different phase, is part of that entire process.
Skyler: Very cool.
Terry: The stops along the way might be different than you originally planned, but the final destination is going to be ideally the same, or bigger, maybe that's right and, like Courtney said, if the last three years have taught us anything, that you have to expect the unexpected, that things will never turn out exactly the way you originally planned it. But again, the master plan is a tool that helps that owner at least feel comfortable with the decisions they're making.
Skyler: Right and kind of gives them a way to like this is where we need to head at the end of the day, and if there's some things that vary along the way that I need to readjust or whatever, as long as we get here at the end.
Terry: So very cool Very cool, well, awesome.
Skyler: Thank you both for being on the show. Seriously, like I said, I came in here I didn't even know exactly per se what a master plan was, so thank you for explaining it to me and explaining it to all these amazing people that are listening.
Courtney: Well, thank you. It's always fun getting to talk about it and we get really excited about what we do. But it's exciting getting to see those come together and have a plan for a district or a facility and a client so that they know what to look ahead for.
Skyler: Awesome. Well, it makes my job a whole lot easier that you guys are excited to talk about what you do, for sure.
Terry: So we love to talk about it, love to watch Courtney in action. It's amazing Again, when people are passionate, it's just, it's contagious. So I just it's just fun, it's just fun, best part of our jobs.
Skyler: Awesome, awesome, well, seriously, thank you both for being on the show and, of course, thank you for listening. This has been another episode of laying the foundation. If you want to find out more about CNBA Architects, you can head to our website at CNBAArchitectscom. You can see all sorts of the projects that we've worked on in the past, including projects that both Courtney and Terry have worked on. You can see pictures from those, or maybe some posts about some groundbreaking or open houses on projects that we've finished or starting. Whatever the case, of course, check us out on social media, whether that be Facebook, twitter, instagram or LinkedIn, and, of course, if you like the show, be sure to check us out and follow us on anywhere that podcasts can be found and streamed, whether that be Apple Podcasts, google Podcasts, spotify, any of the above. We'd love to have you follow us and you won't miss another episode. So thank you again. Thank both of you again. This has been another episode of Laying the Foundation.
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July 13, 2023