In this episode, we tackle one of the most pressing challenges in modern healthcare: the intersection of architectural design and the national staffing crisis. Joined by a panel of CMBA experts, including an Associate Principal, a Healthcare Architect, and an Interior Designer, we explore how "design for lean staffing" has shifted from a luxury to a necessity. Our team shares their experiences of when strategic sightlines and multi-functional spaces have allowed fewer staff members to provide a higher standard of care without burnout. From "walking the workflow" to identify wasted movement to designing a full-service bistro operated by a single person, we dive into the "force multipliers" that help medical facilities do more with less. Tune in to learn how smart design is helping healthcare leaders rethink their operations and prioritize both patient safety and staff well-being in an increasingly demanding environment.
(Skyler): Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Laying the Foundation podcast. My name is Skyler. I'm your host. And today we're doing a special episode where I have three guests with me which is very exciting. Usually it's, it's usually one, maybe two, but today we're doing three, to talk because this is such a big topic. designing for efficiency. We're talking about streamlining workflow in medical facilities. So I've got three people with me that have a ton of experience with designing medical facilities. Kylee, interior designer from our Des Moines office. Welcome to the show.
(Kylee): Hello.
(Skyler): We, got Angela from our Spencer office, who's one of our amazing associate principals from our Spencer office. Thanks for being on the show, Angela. And also, we have Adam Wheelock, an architect from our Sioux City office. Adam, welcome to the show.
(Adam): Thank you.
(Skyler): Awesome. So the three of you all have, like I said, a ton of experience with designing healthcare facilities across a number of different projects. So this will be, really a great dive into this topic because you guys have done a lot of work with this and just kind of kick things off. What we're talking about streamlining the workflow of medical facilities. What issues or what challenges are we seeing from healthcare facilities right now that are kind of pushing for this topic as sort of a topic on the forefront of their minds?
(Angela): So I think this comes up with every owner we work with in some way, shape or form, regardless of the department that we're addressing. Kylee and Adam and I, have been on several projects together, are currently on a project that each department has this as a pain point where we need to design for the peak patient load when everything is at its ultimate extreme, and for those 24 hour units or units that see fluctuations in their patient care, the absolute minimum number of people. How can we run a full department when there's only one or two people staffing something that is typically many, many more people with all hands-on deck? And so we hear this, consistently from owners of what does this space feel like when there's lots of people and what does the space feel like when there's very few people?
(Adam): I think I'd add to that that, across the nation, every healthcare provider is dealing with fewer and fewer staff. there are thousands of open healthcare worker jobs in this country that go unfilled every year. And so if the large metropolitan areas are dealing with that issue, imagine what rural healthcare providers are dealing with as well. So, it's a big challenge. And in the region, we serve, we're not alone, but all healthcare providers are being asked to do more with fewer people. And so we commonly get asked to how can you design this space so that we can provide the same level of care with fewer people? And it kind of goes to Angela's point of view. How do we do that when there's lots and lots of patients in this space? And then how do we do that in the middle of the night when there's not as many patients or when there's not as much work to do? So I think that's a big part of it as well.
(Skyler): Yeah, absolutely. Obviously, you know, healthcare facilities, it's a, it's a high requirement within the job positions to be able to fill those positions. Right. Like you're going to. We're talking doctors and nurses who have to go through, you know, extra schooling to be able to be trained for that position. So, yeah, absolutely. It's hard to fill those roles. And so, yeah, if you're not getting enough people in to fill those roles, you're going to have a minimal staff. And it's hard to be able to do everything that a hospital or a healthcare facility needs to be able to handle if you don't have enough. So with that being said, I mean, where do we start? So, like you said, Adam, we're having these healthcare facilities reach out to us and say, we need you guys to design a facility that can facilitate the lack of staff or the minimal staff that we have, especially in situations where there's, you know, high fluctuation of, patients coming in. So where do we start in the process of looking at their facility and saying, let's look for some opportunities to, where we can change the design to help with these issues?
(Kylee): I think we do a really good job of a thorough study at the start of these projects. And we use a lot of different inputs. Of course, we go there and we assess what the facility is like, and it depends on when we can get there. But sometimes we can literally see it in action. Like, we are, experiencing it like a visitor, which is kind of nice because then we can see where their heavy points are in the building and where people get stacked up or where you see a lot of staff floating where that clearly wasn't. They didn't ever expect that that's where they'd be to handle their patients, but that's where they are. And that, like, just observing those spots is really helpful for us. And then on top of that, we actually Ask them. We collect a lot of data that comes directly from them. We have surveying tools that we use, that we can dive deeper with every department. And there's a difference between direct information and indirect information when it comes to that surveying. Because you can ask them what their pain points are. That's the direct. Right. They're going to tell you, Sally needs to be working in five different spots, and she can't do it right now. But then there's also the indirect information where we ask them for their patient volumes and we ask them for information that they may not really correlate to why their space is being inefficient. But it's our job then to decipher that indirect data and come up with reasons that they might be struggling with those areas.
(Skyler): That makes a lot of sense.
(Kylee): Yeah.
(Angela): I love your point, Kylee, that we're able to experience it like a visitor with fresh eyes. So often of no one's fault. Or the response is, well, that's just how we've always done it. And to see. To see how things are working. You know, why is Sally doing something that's so far away from where her home base is? And why is. Why is all of this happening? And. And when the response is, that's how we've always done it. To be able to question, you know, is there a better way? Is it being a process issue or is it a building thing? And if it's a building thing, what can we do to make that experience for the patient and the staff better and more enjoyable for everyone?
(Adam): One of the most powerful tools that we use is visibility. I'm trying to think of, when the staff is very low, an overnight shift or something of that nature, they ask us for visibility a lot. So if the staff is doing their work at a staff station, centralizing that staff station is a big part of it. taking all the barriers, the visual barriers out of their line of sight so that they can keep an eye on more people, with fewer staff. so visibility is a big tool that we, use to make it feel like there's more staff and give that staff the ability to cover more area, in, I guess, less amount of time. that's one of the tools we use. The ability to flex a unit up and down in scale. It was, a big deal, ah, a while ago to build pods where, hey, this staffing, station covers six beds and then there's another pod that covers six beds and another pod that covers six beds and the Biggest challenge, that those buildings now struggle with is When I have seven patients, what do I do? My 16-bed pod is full, and now I have a seventh patient. And now I have to bring on all the staff necessary to staff that whole pod, but I've only got one patient in it. And so, that's a struggle that a lot of our building owners, and clients have. Have had to deal with. And so we've tried to build flexible units where maybe that staff station does oversee six beds, but it also can flex up maybe two or four more. And then when it does flex up those two or four more, when you get that fifth one, then the whole second pod comes online and they're nearly full or half full. So, another tool that just making the building more flexible, I think helps those clients with dealing with fewer staff and more patients.
(Skyler): Yeah, absolutely. And going back to your point about visibility and sort of adding more visibility for the staff to be able to see patients and what's going on. Do we have to juggle that with privacy? And if so, how do we kind of. We want to increase visibility for the staff to be able to see, but we also want to make sure that patients are, you know, feeling like they can have their private session with their doctor or healthcare provider or whatever the case. How are we kind of juggling those two things?
(Adam): Kylee, let's hear about your…
(Kylee): Yes, I was just going to say I think that we have a really good illustration of this right now. And actually, this isn't even the area that I've been focusing on the building. So I'm kind of stealing, like, Adam and Angela's thunder a little bit. So jump in, guys. but we, their emergency department is, like, very much spread out from one edge of the building to the other edge, which is a very unique condition. It did not work, for them to rearrange it in such a way that it all on one side of the building from, like, a cost standpoint and just how their building functions. So that's okay. We can work with that. we have their nurse station that needs to have visibility to the pedestrian ed entrance on one side, and the actual entrance is on the other side of the building. And I mean, literally, I don't know. What. How many feet do you think that is, Angela? It's. It's all the way across.
(Angela): Gosh, it's. Yeah. I mean, it could be 60. I don't know. That's just throwing out a number.
(Kylee): I feel like it's way further anyway, so they need that direct sight line for people to come in. However, the emergency department also exists in the middle of the building in interrupting that path M, which it needs to be a secure. Like, you can't just have anybody walking in there. So it's like this really interesting dynamic of you can't have anybody going into the ed, but you need to see straight through it to see the door. So we're playing a lot of games with where we position the door to the suite and making sure, we keep that sight line open. Which, by the way, is a huge challenge when you're thinking about just security from people walking around the building. But also Adam's doing some really intense code reviews of, like, how do we separate these different areas? And do we have the doors that we need where we need them without obstructing that view? It's just a very interesting puzzle piece to have to try to put together.
(Skyler): Absolutely. And I mean, you know, that's why we have the experts like you guys, who are obviously jumping in there with the codes. That's a whole element that you have to do with safety, with privacy, with functionality. I mean, those are all puzzle pieces within the puzzle that you have to, to be able to put together to make it all function and work cohesively, which is crazy. It's a lot of things to have to keep in mind. It's a lot. It's a lot for sure.
(Angela): And I think that's a great example, Kylee, because it also speaks to the financial component of this. So there's. There's a value both as far as patient care and staff satisfaction, but there's also a monetary dollar amount associated with. Okay, well, what does it take to make that the. Can you. Especially in that example where it's a, renovation or a retrofit of an existing facility, is the monetary amount to make that work to a scenario that you feel is perfect there, and if so, what do we have to do to make that work? And there's a tradeoff, right? There's a tradeoff that staff costs money. In the long run, you're paying them to do work. If you can't see as many patients, you're not making the dollars that you could. And so there's a balancing act of to what extent does this concept need to work in order to financially make sense? And so that. That's a little bit more of a nuanced conversation with the owner and with the leadership teams about how we make this work to the best that we can before it strains your resources.
(Skyler): Absolutely. And I guess going into staff, Kylee, I know one thing that you had mentioned in your notes was you have the staff members that are wearing some of these staff members that are wearing a hats, especially, you know, your front desk team who are going to be dealing with the administrative work that needs to be done, the patient intake. So obviously anyone that's coming in, from right in the door and has to like either set up an appointment or maybe they have an emergency or something along those lines. there's clinical support. Right. Filing some of the paperwork and note taking and things along those lines. I mean, what, how do we design in such a way that helps to, make them feel like they're not, you know, constantly running back and forth or are just, you know, jumping between flipping, putting these hats, these different hats on, as they make their way across these several different duties around the office?
(Kylee): Yeah. I think that there's a few levels to it. It has to start with a really in-depth conversation about all of what they're taking on.
(Skyler): Right.
(Kylee): And sometimes it feels counterintuitive to get that granular with a single person at a facility because, you know, they might not always be there. It seems like you shouldn't design a whole space just based on one person. But that's where having leadership in the conversation is really helpful because then you can kind of sort out, okay, this is unique to this person that they are taking on these tasks. And this is unique. Or this is what leadership actually wants this role to be doing. Because if it is something that makes sense for that role to be, like overlapping with which in rural healthcare I think is very common, then leadership can be like, yeah, that's true of that role, not just of that person, but once you figure out what those roles are and all the different elements to it, that's where space organization comes in. Like very, very important, to try balancing those things next to each other and figure out what makes sense and then just basically walking them through what they would be working in. So like, hey, you're sitting here 99% of the time. Let's talk about the 1%. When you have to do this essential task, how far are you walking? What's your path to get there? Is it obstructed by too many doors? By being in front of patients? Like, what is, what are the give and take that need to happen? And can we move that closer to you? How does that affect the other people using it? We just have to study all of those things in very. In a very efficient way. Because these are also people who don't have a ton of time to talk to us about them either.
(Skyler): But that's fair, too.
(Kylee): Yeah.
(Skyler): Yeah. And I think that's one of the things that always fascinates me the most when I talk to all of you guys, within CMBA is how much we talk to all these different people and how much key input we get. But it's like, it's so different, the types of input that we get. So, like you said, you know, you're going to have your staff. These are the people that are working in these positions every day. If we're at a K12 facility, we're talking to teachers. These are the people that are going from classroom to classroom every day. What do they need? What are the. What issues are they seeing or what challenges are they having to. To deal with every single day? And then you jump over to the leadership side, like you said. these are, you know, kind of usually the, the clients that we talk to at the beginning. These are the people that reach out to us and they say, hey, you know, we're looking at redesigning our facility or whatever the case. And they're the ones that understand the positions or where they want those positions to go. And so obviously they have a key piece of input of, well, we're trying to look ahead or we're trying to maybe tweak some things and how they currently run so that it'll be better in the future. Can we design towards that? And so it's just really fascinating to me to see how much input we can get and how we can, again, put all those pieces together to be able to make something that's actually cohesive and functioning and escalates the, the efficiency of the facility. So just. Just a really cool, cool thing that I've noticed, and I really like talking to you guys about it. It's really cool.
(Angela): We ask a lot of questions, and, I think sometimes you have to. You have to preface the question with; I'm going to get you there. Like, we're. We're going to find a reason for why I'm asking this question, but just come along with me on this journey, right? And then their answers, whether they realize it or not, lead us to the solution in ways that they don't realize. And we've become very in tune with kind of the keywords or the things that they say that they're not realizing that they're saying. And that, that tips off, okay, maybe there's another solution that we're just not thinking of. And it can, it can be kind of a wild ride to walk through some of those patient scenarios. But I have found that giving them a situation, giving someone a situation, saying, okay, so the. A patient comes on XYZ day, and this is, this is their problem. Walk me through what that looks like. And that is so telling for how they're currently using your space, their space, and how we could improve upon it.
(Skyler): Absolutely. And when we're talking to those clients, are there, I guess what are, like the, the red flags that we're looking for? I know we kind of talked a little bit about some of those first steps when we're talking to the clients and what, you know, some of the first questions that we'll ask them or going through each of these departments and asking the staff and the leaders and so on and so forth. Some of these first questions. Are there any, like, red flags that we might be looking for? Whether it be something that we're talking to them about or something that we just notice? as we are touring the facility,
(Kylee): I think we're looking for duplication of work.
(Angela): Right.
(Kylee): Like places where we think two people are doing something that is very similar. And the example that is, in my mind, that I think is very relevant. It's. It's a client working with right now. But they, like many rural hospitals, have so many different registration and waiting points within their building. And this is a lot of duplication because a lot of the same information is being asked of the patient. It's just at the different points of care. And so what they're looking at doing, and this is something that has to happen at the leadership level, is deciding, okay, we are going to register and give, direction to people at one spot at the front of the building. This is efficient because the people who have been doing this at each of the departments now can do clinical work instead of doing all of this registration and the rescheduling and all of those items that can be handled at the desk at the front. So as we're talking to admin at the front, but we're also talking to physical therapy and specialty clinic. We're talking to staff about how or, what they're providing to their patient besides care, because obviously there's care. But what are you doing for administrative items? Like, how are you checking them in and checking them out? We're looking at those items too, and we're looking for ways to streamline it for the whole building rather than just the department too.
(Skyler): I like, that's a great example. Because if there's one thing that always bugs me whenever I go to a healthcare facility, it's being asked the same question six times before. Like, you go in, they give you like their, their clipboard with that big form and they want you to fill out all this information. And then you go sit into room and the nurse asks you like most of those same questions and it's like, where's. And then the doctor comes in and then they ask you those questions and I'm like, who's. Is this ever getting filed? Like, don't I have like a file or something on hand that people can reference, like, how does this, this work? And then you leave and they want to ask you again more questions. So, yeah, no, that's a, that's a fantastic example. Let's, let's minimize that. Let's get it all in one place, let's get it done, and then let's move on to the next thing. That's efficiency.
(Angela): Your example, Skyler, makes me think about technology's role in all of this as well, and how there are tools that some people have and they have at their disposal to make things more efficient. And then there are, there are other places where that's not quite so streamlined. And so we need to take a look at that. And even just the storage or the objects that people need, making sure that we understand where the piece of equipment is you need when you need it. Very quickly, how far are you moving to go to that place? Or is it on a mobile cart that's with you and you bring this alongside you? But do we have a place to store that cart? And it becomes a kind of circular conversation of what, what we're prioritizing and what works best for their workflow.
(Skyler): Absolutely. And I think that also brings up the point of how as the architect team and the interior design team, I mean, you guys have seen so many different facilities. You guys have seen what is out there and what's available. And so a lot of times I would imagine these, these healthcare facilities don't even know what's, what's possible, what's available. And so again, kind of going back to what you had mentioned before, where they say, well, this is how we've always done it. And it's like but hear me out. There's this thing that exists. And again, I'm sure you guys could give a pretty solid example. It helps streamline this entire process. And they're like, what? We've never even heard of this. Or maybe we just completely unaware of this.
(Kylee): This is my favorite part about rural healthcare is the number of times that they ask us, what are you seeing? Like they're in the midst of an intense conversation debating how they should do it, and they just stop and they turn to Angela and they're like, Angela, what are you seeing? What is this hospital doing or what is everybody doing? Like they want to know and they know that they don't have enough exposure to it, and they know that we do. And I really like when they lean on us like that.
(Skyler): Absolutely.
(Angela): There's a lot of research that we, we do just by spending time with other facilities and hearing anecdotally what's working for them and what's what not working for them, quite honestly. And to be able to, to bring that to the table with all the different owners that we work with and help them understand there's a, you know, there's another solution out there. Here's how they're doing it. Maybe it works for you, maybe it doesn't. but I enjoy that question too, of being able to pull from other examples of work that we're doing or successful projects that have really been instrumental in making change in facilities.
(Skyler): Absolutely. I can kind of imagine, you know, Angela, you are sitting there in this like board meeting with the, with the healthcare facilities, like leadership, and they're all arguing about some solution for something and you're just like, over here, I know how to fix that.
(Kylee): Angela is the ultimate listener.
(Skyler): Absolutely.
(Kylee): She will listen as long as possible and then she will introduce this new idea that then they're like, oh, you let us talk that whole time.
(Skyler): Exactly. Like we could have sped up this meeting by a good 30 minutes. If you guys just like, look over here, I have an idea.
(Angela): I think sometimes people are so focused on what their task is. And everyone that we work with and all of the owners that we work with have a role that we sort of take for granted. How much time we spend thinking about their building, when in reality this 30 minute or hour long conversation is maybe the first time they've ever all sat in the room and talked about this inefficiency that had not, had not been brought to their, their attention because they're so, so in the moment of dealing with patients and making sure they're providing good care. And sometimes there's value in letting the groups talk through issues that they're seeing and then bringing solutions to the table of, you Know, I, I'm hearing, I'm hearing what you're both saying. Have you ever considered this? And it feels more collaborative that way. I, I hesitate to ever bring an idea to an owner just because we've thought of it and it's been successful other places and not have had them have a part in making that decision.
(Skyler): Absolutely. And I'm sure there's so much value, too, to sitting there through. Even though it's a, you know, 30, oh, let's say 15-minute argument.
(Angela): You don't want to go on for those 30 minutes.
(Skyler): A little too long. Yeah, exactly. But let's say like, you know, 10, 15 minutes, they're arguing back and forth. I'm sure there's plenty of things that you hear amidst conversation that you're like, oh, that's something I'll take note of, or, oh, that could be a resource that we could use later on, or, oh, there's a challenge that we could probably fix with something else that's not technically part of the immediate conversation, but it's something that we can, make sure that we have on hand as, as again, on the forethought of, of whatever the discussion is, or maybe this is the next discussion is, oh, I heard you mention this earlier. Let's talk about that for a minute. So I'm sure there's just a lot of opportunity. Again, as a person that listens. That's what we do.
(Angela): Right. It also serves as a good check for us going back through the design. Ultimately, you know, we gather all this information when we meet with people and then bring it back to our workspaces and try to input it into the design. And it's also a good check for us to think through. You know, are we actually providing the solution that they asked for and are we making choices that reflect what, what's been brought to us?
(Skyler): Absolutely. And so, kind of, on the side, on the side topic here, Kylee, something that you had mentioned before was the project was kind of a big one that you wanted to, to kind of jump into. And one of the elements that I know that you had mentioned specifically on the idea of streamlining sort of the workflow, and the staff is there, they had a bistro set up. I mean, we know with a lot of hospitals, they usually have some kind of a cafe or some sort of like a food court type situation, and you guys had to adjust it to be able to handle, if I remember correctly, like, one staff member who's doing all this. I mean, I, I'm, There's still, it's a hospital, it's a healthcare facilities like cafe type setup. So I don't know how much it is that they're handling as far as food and drink and everything like that, but still one person. I mean that's, that's got to be, that's got to take some maximum efficiency. What are we talking about here?
(Kylee): Yeah, so currently they are not public facing with their, food offerings. Really. I think it's just for staff at the moment.
(Skyler): Oh, okay.
(Kylee): And it's kind of behind a door. So this is a new program item that they're bringing to their facility. So they're having to learn how they're going to staff it. And we had originally showed them kind of a front of house, serving kit, serving counter, and then go through, going through a door. And that's when you get to the commercial kitchen. And were so happy that they raised the flag and said, we don't know how we would staff that. Like that looks like I would have to have one person standing out in the dining room and then another person in the back. And like, the reality is, no, we do not have the staff for, for that. I mean they might have two people, but even if they have those two people, they need to be both doing things in the back and things in the front. So it was like one of those perfect moments in design where you're like, like this idea that I brought to them doesn't reflect what, what they're asking for. So we're going to go back. And the only way that we knew that was by bringing them that idea. Because they didn't know yet. They don't do it currently. So they needed to see that option, think through how they would staff it. And then they were like, actually, you know what, this is how I think we're going to do it. And our design is totally different from that. Now the serving counter is part of the kitchen basically because then people can be prepping food and serving people and the seeing into the din. We had to learn a lot about that through our ideas. And I think that that makes just as much success as doing it another way.
(Skyler): Absolutely. And I do want to say that it's important to note because I think a lot of our listeners, we talked at the beginning about how a lot of healthcare, facilities are struggling to fill those roles. But one of the things that we do a lot of is rural healthcare facilities and they have a much more limited budget. And so that's where you start to see those situations where we can't afford to have two people working at the bistro or whatever the case. Right. We can't afford to have an excess of staff. And so just for those listening, that's another key thing that we're trying to juggle while we're doing these, facility designs are, again, how can we minimize. It's not so much like we're trying to get rid of people. It's this is what we can afford to make sure that we're providing healthcare and good healthcare to our area. So just to clarify that, and another
(Angela): tool that we use in that example, which is a great one as far as efficiency and staffing, often some of that value comes out of touring other places and seeing. And in that example, some of those conversations came from touring somewhere else and seeing how they were effectively providing a similar service and the staff taking a step back and saying, wow, they're doing this with a lot more people than we would be able to do this with. How are we going to try to provide the same level of, in this case, food, but how are we going to be able to provide the same level of service and still effectively staff that from a responsible standpoint? And so physically going out into other facilities, whether they're ones that we've done work in or whether they're ones that the owner has brought to us as wanting to look at, is also a really great tool of helping them physically step into the design and figure out what that efficiency looks like for them.
(Skyler): Absolutely. And I know we do that across the board with all of our different.
(Angela): All of our sectors.
(Skyler): Yeah. Which is cool. Which is cool. I know. I've actually gotten to go on a couple of tours for, like, I think a couple schools that, that we've done in the past. And it's just really cool to be able to see the staff, like, looking around, they're like, oh, this is really nice. Can we do this? I don't really like that so much, but, you know, it's good to be able to see that example and be able to know in their mind, because obviously, you know, we as humans oftentimes are visual learners. And it just helps to be in that space to be able to see it and experience it for us. I know we've also done that with the, lean 3P, type situation where we will sort of build out these facilities or even just set up kind of, an outline of what it's going to look like so we can bring them into that space and say, hey, is this something that you feel like, is going to work. We're going to place this here. We're going to place this here. This is how it's going to flow. Try it out. Let's see what you guys think and what we can edit. And I know Adam, you've done a couple of those in the past as well.
(Kylee): Tony, you should mention it.
(Skyler): Yeah, exactly.
(Kylee): Adam is literally picking up cardboard for that. For the.
(Skyler): If that's what it was, that's awesome. Okay, so yeah, gearing up for literally, that opportunity to showcase a space before we have to actually go in and design and then have it built. Right. Because like, that's pretty finalizing at that point. Once, once it's built, once it's created, you know, money's been spent. So it's good to be able to create and build an example that's pretty. I mean, not 100% lifelike. You know, we don't have electricity and stuff all plugged into the walls, but it's pretty to scale. And that's another one that I've. I've seen examples of. I've seen the outline side, and I would love to at some point see like a full build situation.
(Kylee): I think this is Adam's domain for sure. when I was part of the one for Loring, there were actual staffing efficiencies that I think that they figured out while standing in that cardboard, which is like, kind of funny to think about, but they brought their staff there and everybody just kind of set up where they would be. In the case of, this was a trauma room. So in the case of a trauma. And they were like, hang on a second, I need to have a computer at my fingertips. And we had that placed across the corridor. And like, when you're thinking through design, you just don't always get to that level of practicality. And so having them stand in it is, I think it makes a huge difference. You find things like that?
(Skyler): Absolutely. I think pos and this is kind of off topic a little bit, but I think it's really funny that when I've done like some of the behind the Blueprints episode and talked to a lot of you guys, about like, what inspired you to get into architecture. And a lot of people say like Legos, and you know, building, what are those? The Lincoln Logs and things along those lines. And, and one thing that we talk about is as kids we would take cardboard and we would build little houses and forts and things along those lines because it's such a usable material. And then we look at professional level, we're architects, interior designers, and we're using cardboard to build these spaces and then invite the people that are going to be using them to come in and see it and experience it. So I think that's kind of a funny full circle situation. And of course a lot of the architects and team here are still building with Legos, so that's also a side point. So awesome. I think my last question that I have for you guys, because we've talked about how we're trying to really design for all this maximum efficiency, whether it be the front desk, whether it be the staff in the back that are doing the nurses and the doctors, whether it be the staff that are working at the local bistro or the bistro inside the facility or cafe or whatever it's called. How are we making sure that we're setting up maximum efficiency, but we're not making the experience feel cold or robotic using that excess of, efficiency. I know with a lot of our rural healthcare facilities, sort of that customer service, that at home feel or tone is really important to them. So how are we managing to maintain that while also making our spaces super-efficient?
(Kylee): Something we've been doing with the Osceola group as we've been working on this reception thing is, walking them through in 3D and we've been tracing the patient path through that front area. Since this is kind of a new model for them to register all in one place. So we'll have the PT director on the call, and we'll trace kind of the path through in 3D on the call and she'll get to see what it looks like when her patient comes in, registers at the front and then walks to her department. And so, so I think just taking the time with the staff to live that a little bit, you know, as much as we can through 3D modeling. It helps to make sure that we're not losing any of that customer service. Like it's not so robotic that you're getting handed off, in a way that doesn't feel like you're being taken care of. And we can really check for that when we're simulating that.
(Skyler): Very cool. We talk about obviously the cardboard side, but also again, using technology to really create the environment and be able to see how it functions so that we can again see these things, see these, these details that we need to make sure that we, we add in. So very cool, very cool. It's always awesome to see like, what kind of tools we're using. Again from one hand cardboard to the other hand 3D modeling that we can put a person into. So very awesome. Awesome. Well, is there anything else that I missed you guys wanted to mention before we finish things out for today?
(Angela): Yeah, I think I would say that there's really no one size fits all solution. And if there's any takeaway from our conversation today, all of, all of the suggestions and all of the design things that we bring to owners are just that they're suggestions on how we can design their facility to work for them. But using all the tools that we discussed, today is the only way that we come up with what's best for them. And so that even if something has worked somewhere else, we have to continue to test it with the next owner and make sure that that's what's right for them.
(Skyler): Absolutely. No, no two healthcare facilities are the same. Regardless of whether they're in kind of that same again rural healthcare or if they're kind of like in a larger city type situation. Doesn't mean that they're going to be the same at all. And there's going to be different needs and there's going to be different, different preferences and different tones and everything like that. So absolutely awesome. Well, all three of you, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to talk to us about healthcare facilities and how we're working to help them streamline their processes, make them more efficient. I think it's obviously anyone in any sort of business across the board is wanting to make their facility and their processes more efficient. Right. And so it's super important that we be able to again, look at these healthcare facilities, which obviously that's pretty big deal, right? These are people that are coming in that are sick, that are injured, and it doesn't help them at all if we have these challenges, and stuff that kind of slow down the process. These are people that need help now. And so I think it's really awesome that, we have so much insight and so much opportunity to help these healthcare facilities to be efficient, to really help their communities and to just, just again, be better. Thank you, guys, so much. Really appreciate it. Angela, Kylee and Adam, all three of you guys for, for jumping in on the call today.
(Kylee): Yeah, it was fun. Thanks, Kylee.
(Angela): Thank you.
(Skyler): Absolutely. All right, and we will see you guys next time on Laying the Foundation. If you'd like to find out more about the Laying the Foundation podcast, you can head over to any podcast streaming platform such as Spotify, iTunes, Google podcasts and others. You can also find out more about CMBA architects through social media such as Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. Additionally, you can head over to the CMBA website at cmbarchitects.com if you're an architecture or design professional or an intern looking for an internship within those fields, please be sure to check out our website and click on the Careers tab to find out more about what opportunities we offer. This has been another episode of the Laying the Foundation podcast. We'll see you next time.