In this insightful episode of our podcast, we sit down with Ryan Cameron, a seasoned architect and a trailblazer in the realm of architectural technologies. Join us as we delve into the dynamic intersection of architecture and artificial intelligence (AI). Ryan shares his expertise on the current applications of AI in the architectural landscape, exploring how it streamlines design processes, aids in project management, and contributes to sustainable practices. We also discuss the exciting potential for AI growth in architecture, envisioning its future impact on design creativity, client interactions, and the overall evolution of the industry. If you're curious about the role of AI in shaping the future of architecture, this episode is a must-listen.
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Episode Transcript
Skyler: Welcome to another episode of laying the foundation.
All right. Welcome back everybody to another episode of laying the foundation. I am here with Ryan from our Des Moines office. One of our amazing architects from over there. Um, very tech savvy kind of guy. And today we're going to talk about AI in reference to the world of architecture. What the heck is going on with AI in the world of architecture, right?
And what do we. Are we, is there anything we're currently using, whether that be with CMBA or just like within the industry, um, as far as AI goes, cause it's, I know it's a big topic, you know, people say, well, AI has existed for a long time, you know, all those computer calculations and everything that's constantly running in the background that you don't have to do that the computer does for you.
That's all, you know, artificial intelligence kind of just running those, but I'm talking, you know, the recent just jump in AI technology. Being able to type a kind of complex question in words in English words or whatever, and having it returned back a very like clever, complicated answer, you know, things along those lines, or, or even just the technology of like, I can design this and then it fills in the rest for me or whatever the case.
What, what are we
Ryan: currently up to? Yeah, no, thanks for that great introduction. Yeah, there's just a million things to, to talk about on this. Um, we won't try to get too technical, talk about large language models and, you know, hidden layers and, and all these different algorithms, um, that it takes to, to make a processor like this, but, um, yeah, just real big picture.
Uh, just kind of stepping back for a moment and, and looking at how far AI has come, um, just in, in the, you know, last. Decade last five years, last three years. It's just making leaps and bounds. Um, so my first experiment with AI was with the Alexa app and there's a video out there on, on YouTube. Um, I gave this presentation five or six years ago where I'm essentially having a conversation with Alexa.
About the project I'm working on and, um, and I would just ask basic questions, how many parking stalls, how many levels, how many square footage of this and Alexis spitting it back out to me, not necessarily a really good, heavy use of of AI, but really being able to, um, almost have it like be a person that's on the team and the end of the video, I say, I think I know the solution I want.
There's probably 6000 different iterations that the team. Machine learning program that that I was using for modernist spit back. To me, and I say, I pretty much say, I need a design that has 250 parking stalls that has 10, 000 square feet of hotel, 20, 000 square feet of office, narrow it down for me. Um, and eventually got to three options and I said, great, these are the three options I want.
Please call the design team for me. And it would transfer through my phone and I'd pick up and get on a call with the design team. So there's a video out there. So it's probably six years old. So that's where it was six years ago. Yeah, yeah. Um, and that's just me with no AI background. Like whatsoever being able to, yeah.
And so that, that really, um, spawned, you know, a lot of people thinking like, Hey, this is great. Um, we're not trying to necessarily replace people. That's, I think that's the biggest fear out there is, is people think they're going to lose their job to this. And it's a great co pilot. It's a great design assist tool.
Um, 60th anniversary. Um, gathering, uh, you know, a week and a half ago, two weeks ago, um, up in Sioux city, we showed all these different tools that we're using right now, um, generative design, if you will, for Photoshop, being able to quickly filter out, um, trees, people, add people back in a lot faster than going to the server, finding an image of, uh, of a person, cropping them, putting them in, like all of a sudden that becomes instantaneous.
I'm not replacing somebody's job. I'm just. Reducing some of the tedious work, and I think that's part of, part of what our presentation was about was the, the interesting tools that are out there to just reduce the overall labor and allow us to dive back into or at least give time back to the creative process.
Um, the stuff that we love doing, the stuff we went to college for, the stuff we love to learn about, um, gives us more time for that. So that's, that's one way we've. We've looked at it. Um, another thing. Um, so for CMBA, it's going to be a really exciting year. Um, as we start to roll out some of these, um, automation tools, we've recently adopted, um, a tool called Veris from Evolve Lab.
Um, shout out to, to them. They've come up with a. Absolutely exciting tool that allows us to, um, essentially take our projects or the scaffolding of, of our design, if you will, and, um, uh, apply a design algorithm, if you will, and say, Hey, I want this rendering of this hospital to incorporate more metal panel or more.
Swirls or more glass or more something and within eight seconds, it gives us 3, 20, 100 different options of what that could look like. Now, we're not going to use that necessarily for the design or expect it to do all the detailing for us, but it really gives us a lot quicker inspiration, um, to the team, um, during the shredding process.
Um, so we're, we're really excited about. Uh, rolling that out, um, yeah, later this year and, um, yeah, really pursuing it, uh, hard next year. Really exciting. Oh,
Skyler: absolutely. I mean, I'm excited. I've seen, I don't always see as much from the architectural stand because it's, you know, I'm in marketing. So I see things from a little bit of that angle of things, but.
I mean, seeing the tools that are kind of coming out for it are really exciting and seeing what I do see and understand, I guess I could say of the architectural side and how that stuff can be implemented is really exciting. And knowing that like, Hey, perfect. These guys can, you know, take a quick break for a little bit because, you know, it's going to run the calculations for them real quick and give them some options to choose from, but also give them more time to look at some of the, um, angles that.
Not necessarily get overlooked, but it just takes more time to look through those details and through those, um, angles and, and be down on those details. So, but you did kind of mention, so. So within AI, there's still going to be limitations. That's why we don't have to worry as much about like, Oh man, I'm going to lose my job because AI is going to come in and they're just going to have some robot doing all my stuff for me.
There's, there's definitely going to be limitations to that. Um, are there, is there anything that you can see within how AI kind of works, that something that it's not really going to be able to achieve or able to replicate that people are going to be necessary for?
Ryan: Um, lots of examples. I thought of one the other day was we had, um, again, it's, it's all these little nuances that, that you need somebody to really think on the fly for.
We had, uh, uh, elevator needs some new breakers, something like that. How is, how is the AI supposed to know that the elevator that does get installed needs to a different service? Um, uh, again, electrical is not necessarily my forte here, but, um, uh, upsizing breakers. Now what? Okay. Well, I don't know. I just can't imagine that an AI that's been custom built around, uh, this, this level of knowledge, um, and to be able to track down the right.
people, the right subcontractor and have this conversation, um, the way we can have it and figure this out on the fly on site, um, and still keep the project on schedule. There's, there's lots of little nuances that, that are, it's going to be a while before it, it. Has these answers? Um, I'm not saying it's impossible, but the thing that I've noticed with a lot of AI is it requires an action from a person, right?
All of it does. It's not designing buildings without some variable of input from a person, and even then it still seems like a long ways off from it designing its own building. Being able to withstand gravity and wind and then tell the other robots to go build it and purchase the site and all of these, there's a lot of, there's a lot of variables in, in the world of architecture and, and, uh, it's, yeah, it's going to take a lot of research, um, in order to, to capture all that it's, it's really complex.
Absolutely.
Skyler: It's, it definitely has its place in time for sure. I need a question answered, or I have something like very specific, let's say, um, I'm working on a space and, you know, maybe I just want some options. Maybe I just want some like ideas kind of thrown my way, kind of like you talked about before.
I mean, you were able to have sort of an open conversation with the AI that was coming through on Alexa. Like, well, what about this? And then it would give you some suggestions and then like, okay, based off those suggestions, let's say I take this one. What about this? How does this kind of flow into it? So on and so forth.
And then. You kind of end up with, uh, something that you piece together versus the AI kind of taking all of it and trying to piece it all together. Um, so we're, I mean, what areas do you think that AI is going to really, um, rather than. Can't really achieve. What is it really going to be able to help us a lot with?
I suppose we kind of said that at the beginning, a little bit, some of the stuff that we're going to be able to use it for some of the technology coming into place, um, whether it be something that we're currently using right now or something that's coming up, what, what does it really benefit? Um, us within AI as far as making use.
Ryan: Yeah. So here's, here's an idea that, that I guess I haven't seen out there yet, but it kind of comes down to what it's trained on, right? Like pictures of a cat now figure out what a cat is. Right. So one thing. That came to mind was, well, what if we had a situation where we had a big database of K through 12 floor plans and we were designing along and we needed a co pilot to say, Hey, we've got this floor plan.
Can you help me optimize it? Can you help me do an energy analysis of it? Can you come up with 50 more iterations where the gym is next to the cafeteria, but everything else can change. Like we need to come up with those types of. Um, methods and like I said, those training modules for, um, AI for it to even understand.
Why a principal's office probably shouldn't be next to the band room, right? Just for noise reasons. That's true. How do you explain that to a computer? Right? Because it's just thinking
Skyler: logistically Oh the floor plan or the space here within this room fits right here. I'm gonna do it and then you're like well No, that's hold on.
That's a bad idea. And it's like but why
Ryan: yeah. Yeah, there's an acoustical layer. There's an energy efficiency layer There's a Egress. Um, there's there's layer upon layer upon layer. Right. And, and again, I'll have to do a little more research. I don't know that there's Um, any, um, anybody, any, any AI researcher out there that's like, Hey, you know what market would be really good to hit architects.
I don't know if that's ever, I don't know if that's ever come across them. Uh, if it hasn't,
Skyler: then it's an open market. Yeah. Definitely jump
Ryan: on it. Steal the idea. I'd love to have an AI assistant that can like look at floor plans and say, Oh, Hey dummy, you should put this over here. Cause it makes this X, Y, Z more efficient.
It's like, Oh, Hey, I'm glad, you know, we. Invested in this. That's another thing that the investment of it there is, is I've heard CIOs of different companies say AI is going to replace you and and I just kind of have to hit the pause button because I see investment in other AI areas. Maybe it might be fintech.
It might be just again other areas, defense contractors, things like that. I don't necessarily see a huge investment in other areas. I just don't see a huge investment. In the architecture market, um, you know, to, to make this progress happen. I see it going into. Every industry but ours, right? And so how is a I going to, um, progress if we aren't the ones investing in it first off and B, where do we get that investment capital from and draw people into this field into this industry?
I'm not saying the The architecture to be an architect industry. I'm saying the architecture field to make architecture better. Right. Industry software side of things. Right. So there's, there's a whole piece missing. There's several pieces missing, but you know, capital inflow is, is one of those big pieces that's missing right now.
Skyler: Attention
Ryan: architecture professionals. Are you looking for an employment opportunity that will provide you with a wonderful work culture and a competitive pay rate? Look no further than CMBA Architects. Our firm offers flexible scheduling, a casual dress code, and a great work environment that will help you collaborate and create.
Plus, who doesn't love having
Skyler: Fridays off? To learn more about our available positions, visit the careers page at cmbaarchitects. com and apply to join the CMBA team. And I'm sure another one would be, you know, within colleges and stuff like that, you know, having those, those directions, those majors, those career paths, whatever the case being created, having the staff that know enough about it, which I'm sure hopefully that comes out of this, right, of this rise in AI.
You start to get those people that are more getting more experience and knowledge within it. And then them taking that and teaching classes so that future generations can sort of understand it a little bit better and move in that direction. So it's, yeah, it's kind of that tricky, I might know how to make an AI, but I don't know the architecture industry.
So I, I can't necessarily make AI that helps the architecture industry, unless I gain an understanding of it. And then you have to find that. So yeah, it's tough. Yeah. Definitely a lot of, like you said, a lot of pieces to that puzzle. So, um, what about, let's see, I guess, I could just ask like different areas and how we could see AI kind of improving that like sustainability.
I'm sure, you know, AI can really jump in and assist with, um, developments within sustainability. Cause I know that's been a big push for us as a firm as
Ryan: well. It's been, it's been huge for us. I, this year was, um, I, I believe we're putting out our first net zero building. Um, we just won a huge award on our Knoxville project, um, from, uh, mid American, uh, it was like 54 percent energy savings.
Yeah. So it was like first place in the state of Iowa for this year. Yeah, just incredible energy savings. Um, and just again, being sustainable, being green. Um, there are some tools out there now that we are experimenting with that can provide us with, with some of that information a little bit faster. Um, we've been trying, uh, we're experimenting with Autodesk Forma, which has kind of an AI Backbone is, as I'm starting to understand, um, I had actually entered a design competition for that.
And apparently I came in fourth. Oh, okay. Very nice. But there's only first, second and third. So, well, you
Skyler: know, the fourth is just behind third. At least
Ryan: that's what they told me. And so it was really neat to experiment. Test project was in San Francisco and it was new Autodesk headquarters, um, to be able to kind of quickly, um, do calculations sun studies with near instantaneous and basically live updates of, um, of these different tools inside the tool.
Um, that tell me, Hey, if you, you know, move the building or rotated it or made it taller or made it shorter or increase the width here and there and there, you can add more parking, you can add more, uh, daylighting into the building, make it more energy efficient. And so to be able to have that again, co pilot, as I mentioned earlier.
Um, in near real time, um, that's a huge game changer if you really think about it, because right now a lot of designers are in a sketch up or just straight up Revit with no, none of that feedback, um, or unless they have to kind of hit pause, export the model. Go into another program, try to run the same stuff.
And yeah, once you get it in the other program, it's fast. But it's like all these different batons, all these different data drops happen. And so just trying to get all that into one system, um, it's, it's complex. But it's, I think it's worth doing to just kind of prevent those
Skyler: data drops. And hopefully that's going to be something that'll be integrated into the softwares that we use along the way, just automatically.
I know like. Um, at the time of recording this, I think, uh, maybe it was a couple of weeks ago. I think that Photoshop officially took the, they have like a beta version. That's where all that generative fill and stuff that they had just integrated was, was coming in from, and they just kind of officially put it all together into.
Photoshop 2024 or whatever it's called. So that way you don't have to jump over it. Cause it was like a whole separate software that they were testing. It was
Ryan: Firefly or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And so it was like an add in. Yeah. I mean, welcome, welcome to the architecture world. Cause that's, that's, that's what it felt like.
It was like an add in that. May or may not move forward.
Skyler: Right. And they want to know like, you know, do people like it? Do they not like it if it's not really working or it's not all that usable, then fine, we won't put it in there. But yeah, so I guess, uh, within that, so we talked about Photoshop, we talked about generative, um, AI and the ability to kind of like, um, for instance, I think one of the ways that we had talked about using it was.
Taking a picture of a space that we had created a, um, uh, representation or what's, what's the word I'm looking for here, uh, version.
Ryan: A visual. Yeah. I couldn't think of it.
Skyler: Um, like a visual for it and then be able to like, so for instance, we took like a daycare space and we could easily just use generative field, like put a kid at this table who's reading a book, put a kid over here who's playing with some toys to really give the client an understanding of like, this is what, not only what your space will look like, but what it'll look like when it's being used by the people that you work with or the children or whatever the case.
Um, yeah. Which just kind of heightens the accessibility that the client gets from being able to see these visuals, right? Putting themselves in the space or putting their mindset into the space to confirm or deny whether they like where things are at or make changes or whatever the case. Um, and so we talked about how, you know, old tools, we had to do everything all manually.
We had to like cut the pictures out, put them in there. Now we have generative fill can do it automatically does in like 30 seconds. Um, I remember one of the things that we talked about the old all staff, um, that some of the interns were using. And I think Matt might have been using, which was mid journey and some of the like kind of stuff that comes out of that, which that's like a I art creation tool or image creation tool.
Um, did you, do you, what do you know
Ryan: about that? I guess. Yeah. So, um, I use a tool similar to that. And so it's, um, I believe it's called Zen task. ai. And so that combines mid journey, Dolly, um, some of the other ones all into one. So you can kind of pick and choose which one you don't have to just. Use mid journey.
You can see what it looks like in the other, like again, Dolly. And again, I, there's so many, so many, yeah, it's ridiculous. And so it all, all this company did was package all that into one fairly inexpensive subscription model. Um, and it also, the nice thing about that is it also combines the chat GTP features.
And so you essentially, um, I got interested in it because it was like, Hey, if I want to write a book someday, uh, like a picture book, whether it's a children's book or a novel or something, um, it would be nice to have, again, that co pilot, um, as I'm writing, kind of like check my grammar and things like that, but maybe improve the story too.
Um, but then like add pictures and things like that. Um, and so it can, it can essentially be an author coauthor. No pun intended to, to, to that story. So, um, that, that's one thing again, mid journey. It's super easy to use as well, but I just wanted to expand and use as many different color palettes, if you will, to see what kind of images that, that each one could can produce.
Skyler: Absolutely. And even just for inspiration, you know, getting some design ideas as far as like, you know, the client can give us an idea of kind of what they imagine and we can take that, put some logistics into it. We know what we're, you know, our end of things. Mm-hmm. , throw that into one of these softwares, get a few pictures, get some ideas.
Obviously we're not gonna just like grab it and slap it in there necessarily. And I know there's like a lot of discussion about when it comes to AI and like copyright stuff, um, which is something to like, you know, kind of tiptoe carefully around when it comes to that sort of stuff. I know that's a whole angle as well.
Um, but yeah, take those ideas and then kind of adapt based on those ideas and. Um, helps with like a lot of the visual side of
Ryan: things for sure. Yeah, and you touch on another good point. Um, kind of what is the, the legal definition of all this? There's, there's a couple cases out there that are, I believe are still, um, being tried, if you will, or, or making Supreme Court, like who, who is the owner of it?
Um, where does, where does the data come from? Those, those kind of things. Um, so again, that's, that's why like. Are the various tool that we're using? Cause we're using our design to be perfectly honest. All it's doing is photoshopping something else on it. Really quick. And we're probably not showing that to the client live because we don't necessarily know what we're going to get right away.
And we might not necessarily like what we get right away. Um, but it, it's, again, it's no different than honestly the way we do it now, which is flip through a magazine. Oh, Hey, that was really cool. Could we change it in a way that fits this design palette? Or we're flipping through Pinterest and see something from like a.
A jet fighter that we want to include in like a K 12 or a hospital or something, right? That would be sick. Yeah. So like a stealth fighter, that color palette, maybe we're after. Okay. And so again, AI. Um, depending on where it's pulling from, um, we can, that's how it works. It just does what we do now just faster.
Right. Um, but yeah, I do, I do respect the, uh, the kind of legalese of it. Um, just making sure that we give credit if possible to the originators of file. I'm not a big fan of typing in, you know, make this, make our design look like a Zaha Hadid or make our design look like a Frank Lloyd Wright. Right. Um, I'm not a huge fan of that because.
You really are crossing some boundaries there from a legal standpoint. And also, I don't want to rip off another artist. Um, I want it to be our company's design or our design. Um, and so that's, that's why we're using again, the scaffolding of our design and saying, change this color palette, change this material, change this texture.
That, that to me, isn't really stealing. That's just doing something faster that we're
Skyler: already doing now. Exactly. Yep. And it's. Again, just kind of creating that visual. It's not, you know, changing the design or the layout or anything like that. It's just kind of putting a new spin on it to, uh, optimize it.
Honestly, try to make it sure it's going to be the best that it's going to be. So, um, and then I guess one of the last areas that I can think of is, uh, with like a 3d modeling side of things and kind of like, and you'll have to explain it to me, cause I've only seen sort of the end product of being able to like.
Put on some, some VR goggles and walk through a space or pull up my phone and scan like a QR code and then all of a sudden I can kind of see around, uh, the space around me through my phone and see what it will look like, but Um, what is that side of things kind of look like from within the software that is
Ryan: existing already?
Um, so something I, what checked out, um, it's a friend of mine and he created a 3D guru dot AI. Oh, okay. And so again, it's at this point, you basically say, Hey, I want to create a coffee shop or I want to create something like that. It will create that 3D representation. Oh, okay. 3D guru. Um. And I know he's, he's working on making it VR compatible, things like that.
He's, um, working with some great people right now to, to make that happen. And so that's, that's something I'm looking forward to is so, you know, I just generate image, but you're getting like a whole 3d environment and, and that's where I see this going, um, in the next three years, 10 years or so, um, being able to kind of QR code, download, um, a virtual space instead of just the blank image, right?
Like it's the early days of rendering. It's like. Hey, look what we can do with this 3D model or even like fake it in 2D somehow and, and use Photoshop to fill it in. Well, that's the stage that we're at now. And we're just, maybe there's some 3d elements to it, but it's not a livable space with a, with a headset yet.
And I think that's where it's, where it's headed.
Skyler: Definitely. And that's going to be cool. That's going to be really cool. I always think about it from like a video game
Ryan: standpoint, but that's just gaming industry is going to change. Oh, absolutely.
Skyler: Yeah, no, definitely. So awesome. Right. Is there anything that I didn't.
into that you wanted to talk about as far as like the AI architecture design world goes?
Ryan: Um, yeah, there's, there's a couple, there's a couple of new things. Um, as of this morning, um, uh, I was asked to, yeah, that's pretty recent. Yeah. Let me, let me reach out to Brian real quick. Um, I I've been asked to, um, speak at the, um, advancing computational.
Building design conference in Dallas, uh, next year, um, and, uh, I guess it's still technically winter in February, but, um, in February of next year, and, uh, we'll be showing a case study of, um, the tools we've been using, our rollouts, our procedures, um, just how we've kind of implemented this and the, the, um, You know, the leadership of this firm, um, sees the value, uh, and then, of course, the direction, the roadmap that we've developed over the last three years.
We're going to do the roadmap again here, uh, in just a couple months, showing that case study, um, uh, about how we implemented AI, automation workflows, using the tools that we've recently, um, purchased this year and, and how that's all going. That way other firms can start to see, oh, hey, AI is not so
Um, we do our part to kind of help push the entire field, the entire industry forward. Um, so we're not like showing any secret sauce or any ninja magic, um, as I call it. But yeah, just getting out there and showing our peers that, you know, our thought leadership and things like that. Um, then the other thing, um, totally changing subjects, so there's that conference and then next year I'll be the chair for the National AIA, uh, Technology and Architecture Practice Committee.
And so we haven't picked a theme yet, um, but that'll be, that'll coincide the day before the National AIA Conference, June, I want to say it's 5th through 7th, something like that, so we'll probably be June 4th. Um, we had tremendous success this year in San Francisco. We had a record attendance, um, shattered the attendee record by hundreds.
Um, so we're expecting to, to have that same result again. It's in Washington DC next year. And we might do a subject on AI. We might do it on career paths. Sure. Um, so yeah, it just kind of comes back to the feedback that, um, the team and I receive on the direction that we think, uh, next year is going for the technology and in.
The architecture field. Uh, the other thing, uh, is it's possible, um, the TAP group might be doing a webinar series, um, on the legalese of, of AI in, in architecture. Um, and that's with, um, I want to say Jeff Huber and some other people on the AI strategic council. Um, that are starting to like figure this stuff out.
Yeah. So yeah, CMBA is going to be positioned at the forefront of all of that. Awesome. So really big news there. So pretty exciting.
Skyler: No, that's definitely a side of things that I really personally am curious about is like the whole legalese side and When does, you know, copyright start to kick in and how much is free use and things like that.
But needless to say, I'm glad that that CMBA is at the top of that. And I think that really goes to show, you know, our dedication, not trying to brag or anything. I mean, it is our podcast, so it is fair, but you know, just the dedication that we have to growing technology, not staying stagnant. Cause if you stay stagnant, there, there really is no staying stagnant.
If you are staying stagnant, then you are falling behind. Yeah. Versus if you are following along with what's going on and keeping up with technology, then you are moving ahead with everybody else. So, and I like what you said about, you know, it's not a matter of always, you know, we've got this special way of doing things and we're going to hide it away and tuck it away and not share it with anybody.
There's an extent where, you know, we want to share what we're doing with the industry because we want the industry to grow. You know, if, if we're sharing these, call them secrets, not really, but, um, this new technology and this new information with. The entire architecture industry, if it's helping with Stata sustainability, that means more firms are gonna design with sustainability.
I swear, I'm gonna say that word correctly, the first time, one of these times. Um, but whatever the case, you know, that's better for the planet as a whole, you know, and that's just one example. You know, we're designing all kinds of different places with all sorts of different, um, styles and everything like that.
And, and being able to make use of these tools is definitely gonna bring. All of that to the next level throughout the industry. And that's better for everybody. So. Cool. Awesome. Awesome. Well, Ryan, thank you so much for being on the show, for sharing this information, for sharing your knowledge and expertise within architecture and the technology side of architecture, which is incredibly powerful, always growing, always something you got to keep up on.
So it's great to have people like you that are keeping up on it and willing to
Ryan: share. So. Awesome. Well, thanks for having me. Absolutely. Awesome.
Skyler: And thank you, of course, for listening. This has been another episode of Lighting the Foundation. My name is Skylar. If you want to learn about, uh, what CMBA Architects does as a firm, some of the projects we've worked on, as well as some of the projects Ryan's worked on, you can find out a lot more on our website, cmbaarchitects.
com. Check out some of the pictures and the details on projects we worked on there. Of course, you can also see what our. firm is also up to, uh, even outside of just the projects we work on. If you find us on social media, you can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. And of course, since you're listening to this, don't forget to hit that like subscribe or follow button, wherever it is that you listen to podcasts, whether that be Spotify, iTunes, Google podcasts, or others, and make sure to keep an eye out for new episodes of laying the foundation, thank you.
See you next time.
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November 2, 2023